Here's the problem, as I see it. All of the pro-working class policies sound like big giveaways, and to a certain extent they are. Touting them is appealing, but the bigger issue, in my mind, is that the real giveaways have been to shareholders and CEOs, as Sanders has pointed out. Those corporate giveaways obtained through market manipulations and price-gouging were the corporate world's response to aid the Biden Administration gave struggling citizens to weather the pandemic and its fallout. These guys always muscle their way to the dining table because it's never enough to fill themselves up at their chef-run kitchens. Bailouts, subsidies, tax breaks, bankruptcy relief, and government contracts are never enough for them if there's any box of cash set aside for working Americans. No, working folks get pushed aside just like Trump pushed aside Montenegro's prime minister at that NATO meeting lest anyone forget who the big cheeses are. I think that's what's been happening, and the message that needs the most reinforcing is that the investor class wants guaranteed profits while the workers are not even guaranteed minimum wage paydays. Say it loud and say it louder. Let them whine about "unseemly" class wars. Let them wave their rags to riches stories. But be quick to point out that in a world of risks, one seldom hears riches to rags stories because the investor class always knows how to protect their wealth. "Capital loss carry forward loophole, anybody?"
Ever wonder why the U.S. doesn't have a real socialist or social democratic party? Why even labor unions -- no, make that *especially* labor unions bend over backwards to avoid the "taint" of socialism? Ever wonder why the FBI has for many decades cracked down hard on the left of center -- especially when it's Black -- and totally ignored dangers from the right, right up to the point where right-wingers tried to overturn a presidential election? Since at least the late 19th century, Big Money (corporations, uber-wealthy individuals, etc.) has devoted considerable time and expense to busting unions and electing its friends to high offices. It's also done a brilliant job of co-opting much of the white working class by convincing it that people of color are the real enemy.
Good ol' Bernie, he always comes through for us. I agree that was once thought was "too socialist" is now closer to mainstream. More than anything we need to emphasize the greed of the oligarchs has led directly to the continuing inflation - ONLY - in the necessities of life for those of us with less than a million dollars in our savings accounts. Food, energy, housing. I think having a 'wealth tax' as part of our program will improve the chances of all Democrats, not just Kamala. Nothing is going to bring the magats into our fold, they are committed body and soul to trump BUT don't forget, at the most there are 30 million of them, there's at lest 100 million of us.
A wealth tax and getting rid of the "carried interest exemption" would go a long way to changing things. Back in the days of the "communist" Eisenhower Administration, there was a 90% marginal tax rate on upper incomes. Somehow the rich managed to believe they were rich with the CEO of GM only making 40x the salary of the avcerage (unionized) worker there, and we managed to educate and create a middle class, build the interstate highway system, and spend 2/3 of what the Manhattan Project had cost to create the industrial base for the modern (supersonic) aerospace industry. All simultaneously.
I hate to keep harping on this, but the far-and-away greatest number of people who vote in this country have no idea that anything like this ever happened. they've never hears anything about it.
I was talking to a neighbor the other day and mentioned unions. the person I was talking to said something like "fuck unions...they only want your money." this is the kind of thing we're dealing with.
I can actually remember back to when my uncle, who was a dentist in Clawson, MI ( a working class suburb of Detroit), was suddenly able to stay in that office and make an excellent living because of the UAW's excellent dental insurance.
if you asked most people how the interstate highway system got there, they wouldn't be able to tell you.
I remember multiple conversations with two or three much younger friends and when I mentioned Watergate and how weird it was to watch Nixon's helicopter take off after that little "my mother was a saint" speech and they had no idea what I was talking about. this is not a good situation.
for a little bit of grim laughter, it's fun to read Anthony Lane's lethal snark attack in the last "New Yorker." I'll post the link, hoping there's no miserable paywall.
They did vote for Clinton! 3 million over Trump. The Achilles heel was 100k votes in the “wrong” states. Biden got 7 million over Trump. 77k votes in the “right” states. Absurd! Electoral college needs circumvented or wholly abolished. Interstate compact does exist. But it’s only up to 200, doesn’t get triggered until 270 in member coalition.
I hope one day the Electoral college will be eliminated. Probably won't happen in my lifetime. I remember when SCOTUS shut down the vote count in Florida during the Bush/Gore election. It was a blow.
I saw competence and devotion to country. Must have missed her alienating characteristics. A man friend said he would never vote for her (being a female). He didn’t, dying before he could vote for chump. Hope a majority of old, white men don’t have to die before a woman can be elected in this country.
I am having brain freeze on this. Bernie is laying out all these proposals that Repubs have tried and true smack downs for. Maybe I’m half asleep. More later.
You're right, the Republicans do have smackdowns. But if we got the House and Senate, and Kamala in the white House, and the filibuster was finally killed, there wouldn't be fuckall they could do about it.
Yes!!! Great song. Great video. Great message. Great idea. . . . And of course we now know the woman got the much bigger crowd! And maybe it's just the contrast but she speaks so clearly and eloquently. And without the vapid platitudes and the moronic fascination with absurd things that is Trumps MO.
I suppose it's premature or maybe off the mark to play Camelot at her rallies? Although the last time we had a metaphorical Camelot it didn't end so well. . . . Meanwhile Trumps theme could be the one from Romper Room.
Actually, a significant number of republicans support progressive or even Democratic policies, but they can't vote for a Democrat because all Democrats are treasonous communists. Or so they hear.
As a matter of fact, Bernie made mention of the fact that all of the things he's pushing for have over 50% support of Republicans. So we're not talking about a lot of "weird ideas" here.
I’m starting to get a bit fractious over the issue of inflation. In so many convos with the same monotonous whine….”oh Biden and inflation” oh Dems and inflation” oh my ass and inflation. I ask them….where do you think the reason originates that the “libs” are responsible for inflation? I tell them now….do not be stupid because that is a choice and you are not dumb. Believing that Biden is responsible for inflation and that Trump will fix it is stupidity. The President and his branch of govt help to fix the economy. Inflation is driven by greed of the corporate bottom line.
And it will not be checked until we elect someone that will allow our voice at the cash register to dominate.
So "neither here nor there" is pretty accurate then. What does "centrist" mean in terms of policies and priorities? And especially what does it mean when one party is sliding further and further right -- so far right that it's becoming anti-democratic?
As Bill Maher said, Dems have moved right, and Repubs moved into an insane asylum. No hard left will work, sad to say, but a veer to the left sounds like a first step…
If you want to sound insulting, you've succeeded. For right now it means voting to pull the Right back to center Right. It means fighting against a fascist movement to end democracy. And IF Kamala wins, and Dems take back the House and keep the Senate, it means being prepared to fight another insurrection because these fanatics won't want to certify the results. When that is accomplished, we can go back to discussing policies. Right now we are in a war.
When the whole wing of a party, and maybe the party itself, has gone over a cliff, pulling them up isn't worth the effort -- if it's even possible. And we really do need to be discussing policies *now*. Because otherwise we're fighting for a bunch of "centrists" who will sell us out the first chance they get. Thank heavens the Biden administration didn't take your approach and hold off on policies till the anti-democracy forces were vanquished.
Kabuki! Appreciate your comment. I think the far left DOES have issues with her, e.g., Israel. She's centrist (if that term means anything really), and is trying to thread the needle, which can alienate everyone. For now, there's a sense of euphoria since she makes Trump look geriatric and brings a relatively youthful face to Democrats. . . . Meanwhile, the world could explode tomorrow (mid-east, Ukraine's receipt of missiles, riots in England! of all places, a tanking stock market - how do headline writers even know where to begin! . . . My vote btw is Kelly. Tell us about travelling in space? And he "knows" the border to silence the right (a bit), and nobody can speak more eloquently about gun violence. And of course RFK Jr looked for a a bear cub in Central Park! And that's just this weekend!
Joe was certainly a centrist. What he enacted between 2020-22, definitely wasn't. But the way those things were marketed allowed centrists to join on for them.
There is no "far left" in this country. There's barely a left, e.g., an overtly socialist faction. However, "far left" is used regularly by self-styled centrists and, of course, Republicans, to denigrate anyone who wants to hold corporations accountable.
I identify as a centrist Independent. The only people I know who use the term "far left" are Republicans, particularly the Maga contingent. The term is highly effective in any state east of California, excluding New York. It doesn't matter if it's true. It only matters if people perceive it to be true, and they do.
Rita. Exactly. Subjective and dependent upon characterization. Aka common sense. Aka something people who self describe as moderate R or D. Aka fixing problems or marginal improvement vs FDR sweeping changes.
Here's the problem, as I see it. All of the pro-working class policies sound like big giveaways, and to a certain extent they are. Touting them is appealing, but the bigger issue, in my mind, is that the real giveaways have been to shareholders and CEOs, as Sanders has pointed out. Those corporate giveaways obtained through market manipulations and price-gouging were the corporate world's response to aid the Biden Administration gave struggling citizens to weather the pandemic and its fallout. These guys always muscle their way to the dining table because it's never enough to fill themselves up at their chef-run kitchens. Bailouts, subsidies, tax breaks, bankruptcy relief, and government contracts are never enough for them if there's any box of cash set aside for working Americans. No, working folks get pushed aside just like Trump pushed aside Montenegro's prime minister at that NATO meeting lest anyone forget who the big cheeses are. I think that's what's been happening, and the message that needs the most reinforcing is that the investor class wants guaranteed profits while the workers are not even guaranteed minimum wage paydays. Say it loud and say it louder. Let them whine about "unseemly" class wars. Let them wave their rags to riches stories. But be quick to point out that in a world of risks, one seldom hears riches to rags stories because the investor class always knows how to protect their wealth. "Capital loss carry forward loophole, anybody?"
Ever wonder why the U.S. doesn't have a real socialist or social democratic party? Why even labor unions -- no, make that *especially* labor unions bend over backwards to avoid the "taint" of socialism? Ever wonder why the FBI has for many decades cracked down hard on the left of center -- especially when it's Black -- and totally ignored dangers from the right, right up to the point where right-wingers tried to overturn a presidential election? Since at least the late 19th century, Big Money (corporations, uber-wealthy individuals, etc.) has devoted considerable time and expense to busting unions and electing its friends to high offices. It's also done a brilliant job of co-opting much of the white working class by convincing it that people of color are the real enemy.
Good ol' Bernie, he always comes through for us. I agree that was once thought was "too socialist" is now closer to mainstream. More than anything we need to emphasize the greed of the oligarchs has led directly to the continuing inflation - ONLY - in the necessities of life for those of us with less than a million dollars in our savings accounts. Food, energy, housing. I think having a 'wealth tax' as part of our program will improve the chances of all Democrats, not just Kamala. Nothing is going to bring the magats into our fold, they are committed body and soul to trump BUT don't forget, at the most there are 30 million of them, there's at lest 100 million of us.
A wealth tax and getting rid of the "carried interest exemption" would go a long way to changing things. Back in the days of the "communist" Eisenhower Administration, there was a 90% marginal tax rate on upper incomes. Somehow the rich managed to believe they were rich with the CEO of GM only making 40x the salary of the avcerage (unionized) worker there, and we managed to educate and create a middle class, build the interstate highway system, and spend 2/3 of what the Manhattan Project had cost to create the industrial base for the modern (supersonic) aerospace industry. All simultaneously.
I hate to keep harping on this, but the far-and-away greatest number of people who vote in this country have no idea that anything like this ever happened. they've never hears anything about it.
I was talking to a neighbor the other day and mentioned unions. the person I was talking to said something like "fuck unions...they only want your money." this is the kind of thing we're dealing with.
I can actually remember back to when my uncle, who was a dentist in Clawson, MI ( a working class suburb of Detroit), was suddenly able to stay in that office and make an excellent living because of the UAW's excellent dental insurance.
if you asked most people how the interstate highway system got there, they wouldn't be able to tell you.
I remember multiple conversations with two or three much younger friends and when I mentioned Watergate and how weird it was to watch Nixon's helicopter take off after that little "my mother was a saint" speech and they had no idea what I was talking about. this is not a good situation.
for a little bit of grim laughter, it's fun to read Anthony Lane's lethal snark attack in the last "New Yorker." I'll post the link, hoping there's no miserable paywall.
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2024/08/05/the-republican-national-convention-and-the-iconography-of-triumph
Progressive policies are popular among the young voters and many Gen X.
Obama was too centrist which caused a lot of his voters to turn to Trump in 2016. They were disillusioned.
The time has come.
People are loath to admit it but Hillary alienated a lot of people. They would have voted for Joe Biden.
They did vote for Clinton! 3 million over Trump. The Achilles heel was 100k votes in the “wrong” states. Biden got 7 million over Trump. 77k votes in the “right” states. Absurd! Electoral college needs circumvented or wholly abolished. Interstate compact does exist. But it’s only up to 200, doesn’t get triggered until 270 in member coalition.
I hope one day the Electoral college will be eliminated. Probably won't happen in my lifetime. I remember when SCOTUS shut down the vote count in Florida during the Bush/Gore election. It was a blow.
I saw competence and devotion to country. Must have missed her alienating characteristics. A man friend said he would never vote for her (being a female). He didn’t, dying before he could vote for chump. Hope a majority of old, white men don’t have to die before a woman can be elected in this country.
Hillary does have an "off-putting" part - at least to some people.
I must share that with her.
My brother was one and he was stupid.
So what's the plan for dealing with the unofficial fourth branch of government: Big Money, corporate and otherwise?
I am having brain freeze on this. Bernie is laying out all these proposals that Repubs have tried and true smack downs for. Maybe I’m half asleep. More later.
You're right, the Republicans do have smackdowns. But if we got the House and Senate, and Kamala in the white House, and the filibuster was finally killed, there wouldn't be fuckall they could do about it.
Why it’s worth risking all. Don’t forget the SC. But to see the cretins crawl back under their rocks, would be the cat’s meow.
If is a big word. Let's wait until that happens. I am not a fan of David Axelrod but he cautioned against Democrats being overly enthusiastic.
Overly enthusiastic/overly confident was what scared me in 2016.
Me, too. We've got a long way to go.
Yes!!! Great song. Great video. Great message. Great idea. . . . And of course we now know the woman got the much bigger crowd! And maybe it's just the contrast but she speaks so clearly and eloquently. And without the vapid platitudes and the moronic fascination with absurd things that is Trumps MO.
I suppose it's premature or maybe off the mark to play Camelot at her rallies? Although the last time we had a metaphorical Camelot it didn't end so well. . . . Meanwhile Trumps theme could be the one from Romper Room.
Listen to "put a woman in charge" by Keb Mo. It should be her anthem.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FciQeRGYFlw
Not sure reply made it. Beautiful song. Great video. Totally on target!!!
Or It’s Howdy Doody Time.
Or as we sang it:
It's Howdy Doody Time
He isn't worth a dime
He looks like Frankenstein
And smells like turpentine
Exactly! And then rake in the nostalgia vote. But you're right. That's an apt metaphor that our culture has been missing lo these many decades.
Actually, a significant number of republicans support progressive or even Democratic policies, but they can't vote for a Democrat because all Democrats are treasonous communists. Or so they hear.
As a matter of fact, Bernie made mention of the fact that all of the things he's pushing for have over 50% support of Republicans. So we're not talking about a lot of "weird ideas" here.
I’m starting to get a bit fractious over the issue of inflation. In so many convos with the same monotonous whine….”oh Biden and inflation” oh Dems and inflation” oh my ass and inflation. I ask them….where do you think the reason originates that the “libs” are responsible for inflation? I tell them now….do not be stupid because that is a choice and you are not dumb. Believing that Biden is responsible for inflation and that Trump will fix it is stupidity. The President and his branch of govt help to fix the economy. Inflation is driven by greed of the corporate bottom line.
And it will not be checked until we elect someone that will allow our voice at the cash register to dominate.
So there.
Salud!
🗽
Harris could win in a landslide by following Bernie's recommendations.
Totally disagree. Her focus has to be centrist. True for mid east, true for larger govt programs. She has the left. She needs the middle.
And what exactly does "centrist" mean, other than "neither here nor there"?
Short of Bernie
Centrist means you lean left on some things and right on others. The vast majority of voters is center.
So "neither here nor there" is pretty accurate then. What does "centrist" mean in terms of policies and priorities? And especially what does it mean when one party is sliding further and further right -- so far right that it's becoming anti-democratic?
As Bill Maher said, Dems have moved right, and Repubs moved into an insane asylum. No hard left will work, sad to say, but a veer to the left sounds like a first step…
Acknowledging that economics matter would be a first step. These "centrists" think any mention of economic justice is socialist commie pinko stuff.
If you want to sound insulting, you've succeeded. For right now it means voting to pull the Right back to center Right. It means fighting against a fascist movement to end democracy. And IF Kamala wins, and Dems take back the House and keep the Senate, it means being prepared to fight another insurrection because these fanatics won't want to certify the results. When that is accomplished, we can go back to discussing policies. Right now we are in a war.
When the whole wing of a party, and maybe the party itself, has gone over a cliff, pulling them up isn't worth the effort -- if it's even possible. And we really do need to be discussing policies *now*. Because otherwise we're fighting for a bunch of "centrists" who will sell us out the first chance they get. Thank heavens the Biden administration didn't take your approach and hold off on policies till the anti-democracy forces were vanquished.
Don't assume she has the left. I'm guessing many like me won't vote for more vague BS. We've been there before. It's a theater with no substance.
Kabuki! Appreciate your comment. I think the far left DOES have issues with her, e.g., Israel. She's centrist (if that term means anything really), and is trying to thread the needle, which can alienate everyone. For now, there's a sense of euphoria since she makes Trump look geriatric and brings a relatively youthful face to Democrats. . . . Meanwhile, the world could explode tomorrow (mid-east, Ukraine's receipt of missiles, riots in England! of all places, a tanking stock market - how do headline writers even know where to begin! . . . My vote btw is Kelly. Tell us about travelling in space? And he "knows" the border to silence the right (a bit), and nobody can speak more eloquently about gun violence. And of course RFK Jr looked for a a bear cub in Central Park! And that's just this weekend!
Joe was certainly a centrist. What he enacted between 2020-22, definitely wasn't. But the way those things were marketed allowed centrists to join on for them.
There is no "far left" in this country. There's barely a left, e.g., an overtly socialist faction. However, "far left" is used regularly by self-styled centrists and, of course, Republicans, to denigrate anyone who wants to hold corporations accountable.
I identify as a centrist Independent. The only people I know who use the term "far left" are Republicans, particularly the Maga contingent. The term is highly effective in any state east of California, excluding New York. It doesn't matter if it's true. It only matters if people perceive it to be true, and they do.
Rita. Exactly. Subjective and dependent upon characterization. Aka common sense. Aka something people who self describe as moderate R or D. Aka fixing problems or marginal improvement vs FDR sweeping changes.
True, they don’t mind lying non-stop, just to put Dems on defensive.
Vague BS or 109% evil. No confusion for me.
Not in my world. Repubs rule
But for the 60-vote threshold.
It's time to kill the filibuster, which can be done by saying "these are the rules" in January.