Odd that he thinks this was founded as a Christian nation. Most of the founders were deists, not Christians. Our nation was not founded by a religious movement at all.
Yes there were people who came here for religious freedom, my family being that kind of immigrant, but they had nothing to do with our foundation. In fact, many of the girls and women were burned or tortured to death in the name of religion.
I have trouble even understanding these people. I don't make sense of their opinions. I do hear that they want to destroy, but their logic is crazy.
I guess what matters is not that I understand them. What matters is believing they mean what they say and are serious. These appointees will do real damage.
The soon to be border czar already has the state facility, a huge militaristic jail in Texas, ramping up to be a detention center. Public lands have been offered by the state for detention camps, as well as private land. This is just a beginning of concentration camps in one state.
The damage that can be done by using only loyal civil servants is truly frightening. Civil servants, especially experienced staffers, keep the elected and appointed officials informed. They fill in the details and write legislation/position papers/briefings etc. They perform a function that keeps our government moving.
We absolutely must stick together and fight them any way we can think of.
Excellent, Hannah. My "religious refugee" ancestors would have had nothing to do with these scum. They were busy tying to create the world these guys want to destroy.
Vought is either lying about US history or is abysmally stupid. Thomas Jefferson, in dealing with the Barbary pirates plainly said that America was founded as a secular nation, not a Christian nation.
Same here, Hannah. My ancestors came here in the mid-1600's not because of religion but for resources; fish, furs, timber. Vought's religious fervor is scary; the religious wingnuts are almost always the least tethered to reality and the most attached to violence to get their way.
Same here. Mine on one side came in 1630, and while religious freedom may have played a part, it was as you say, for land, resources and opportunities that didn’t exist in England. The other side came a bit later having originally been kicked out of France, and ended up here when England and Holland didn’t suit (they were Huguenots). Determined men with small minds often take advantage of a society grown complacent, not acquainted with history, and slow to catch on. Meanwhile, I’m sitting here on a sunny day looking out the window at my quiet, pleasant neighborhood wondering how we get ahead of the coming shitstorm. We’re certainly on the path by coming together and believing we can ultimately prevail, but the cost may be very, very high either way. Not how I envisioned spending my dotage!
We’re certainly on the path by coming together and believing we can ultimately prevail, but the cost may be very, very high either way. Not how I envisioned spending my dotage!
I did, Tom and it is both sickening and horribly scary. I keep hoping for a Christmas miracle CVA or myocardial infarction. but I'm prepared for Santa to disappoint me yet again. (I never did get my pony).
the Kash Patel story in The Atlantic (either October or November) was pretty comprehensive. he's a little easier to understand than these more "existential" types like Vought. he's just trying to "get even" because he wasn't taken seriously by his old bosses. but the FBI??
I'd hate to see how that could go. I don't even want to think about it. let's remember that this is being said by someone who came to political consciousness when the FBI was rightly considered to be one of the faces of evil...Hoover in his dotage, etc. I bet you've got quite the file, Tom.
Vought: “We’re not a secular country. That we are a Christian Nation as founded and that should be shared by everyone even if they have religious liberty for another faith.”
Fact: We are a secular country. The Constitution does not contain the word God. No federal law has as its justification what is stated in the Bible taken as authoritative fact.
Vought: “To the extent that you don’t have that consensus [Christian heritage], you have a culture and a nation that just disintegrates.”
Fact: The U.S. has not disintegrated yet, and if it does, it will be because of fascism that is substantially supported by Christian fundamentalists, not by a coalition of non-Christians.
Vought: told Charlie Kirk in February that he isn’t so much a Christian nationalist, then said that Christian nationalism is "probably be the most accurate aspect of what I believe.”
Fact: This is blatantly incoherent.
Vought: the Bible demands drastic limitations on legal immigration and mass deportations.
Fact: No it doesn't.
Vought: “We have lost the ability in our public square to hear from Judeo-Christian values."
Fact: People espousing Judeo-Christian beliefs are everywhere in every form of media constantly
Vought: The progressive movement under the leadership of Woodrow Wilson figured out how to “radically pervert” the constitution without having to officially amend it, to “keep up with a modernizing nation.”
Fact: Legal rulings from the appellate and Supreme Court as to constitutional matters have been handed down since the nation's birth, in response to new events. The great majority of these rulings have been deeply conservative. The rule of law is not a perversion of the Constitution, whatever that means.
Vought: “We are in a post-constitutional moment in our country. We have entered a new arrangement – a new regime if you will –that pays only lip service to the old Constitution.”
Fact: The U.S. Supreme Court, espousing dedication to originalism, a deeply conservative practice, is highly politicized and manipulated in favor of ultraconservative policies. That is the attack on the Constitution, such as deeming Presidential acts legal if carried out in some fashion within the context of recognized duties.
Vought: There is a “permanent ruling class” of leftist elites who control "unelected bureaucrats, civil servants."
Fact: The ruling class in America is the wealth class that inhabits and uses the corporations, policy-making councils, think tanks and lobbying firms that are deeply interconnected and socially cohesive. (See Who Rules America?, by G. William Domhoff.)
Vought: Conservatives need to become “radical constitutionalists”, “throw off the precedents”, “be radical in discarding or rethinking the legal paradigms that have confined our ability to return to the original Constitution.”
Fact: This is gibberish, untethered to any serious discussion of constitutional law. It is authoritarian/fascist intention masquerading as something real.
Vought: Republican governors should take control of the border themselves.
Fact: Not their job, responsibility or right.
Vought: The current “regime” has no legitimacy.
Fact: That is a fact-free assertion that is so vaugue it is useless except as propaganda (meant to provoke the easily-triggered).
Vought: The Left wants “a monarch with massive historic grandeur and symbolism and no remaining authority,” leaving federal power to "experts" like Tony Fauci to wield power behind the curtains.” An "energetic" President should "bend the executive branch to the will of the American people."
Fact: The office of the President has remained extremely powerful, and unelected officials such as Anthony Fauci have no autonomous power. Any President who sought to establish policies that represented the "will of the people" would put into place a progressive agenda, which remains nationally popular.
Vought: “the hour is late, and time is of the essence”, “woke and weaponized”, "increasingly arrayed against the American people,” “domestic terrorists”, “putting political opponents in jail”, “existential threat” to the leftist regime, “break the political cartels,” “meddling at the margins”, “cast ourselves as dissidents", "the late hour that our country finds itself in.”
Fact: Incoherent, fascist fear mongering.
Vought: Conviction of election interference in a state court is "a corrupt marxist vanguard pulling out all the stops to protect their own power."
Fact: More fact-free, wildly exaggerated fascist fear mongering.
Vought" Put "agents" of the “deep state” [civil servants] “in trauma.”
Vought: Invoke the Insurrection Act "shut down the riots" with no legal recourse.
Fact: A protest, even one that involves some form of property damage, is not an insurrection. Vought is calling for a fascist authoritarian state that no longer honors the First Amendment.
Vought: Donald Trump is a "gift from God."
Fact: A God that gives Donald Trump as a gift is not a God I recognize, and no one who takes Christ's teachings seriously would, either.
In my view, Vought is a fascist-supporting, religious extremist whose statements are incoherent, fact-free and highly dangerous. He should be resisted at every turn. Let your elected officials know that this is what you demand.
He should at least be checked for a brain tumor. At what point in his life did this paranoia emerge and get him to duck behind Christianity as a shield? When did he think Trump was a gift from God, when Trump is clearly a Calibanlike "gift from the primordial slime."
I have to wonder what kind of childhood this guy had.
I was reading something earlier today (Joyce Vance maybe?) and thought, as I often have of late, that it sure does seem like a lot of people become unbalanced over the last few years. Maybe covid baked a few more brains than we realized.
Hey, thanks for the applause! I went through TC's post and pulled out the direct quotes of Vought's, and added a few observations. It is easy to find outrageous things Vought has said because nearly everything he has said that's public is straight out the same extremist playbook that is so unimaginative and superficlal and incurious that it appears that with regard to this ideology nothing will ever touch it - certainly not the facts.
On Bluesky? If not, join. Put each of these pairings as separate (wait - what do they call tweets on Bluesky?) separate flutters or whatever... maybe four or five a day. Let me know and I'll follow you!
I have a Twitter/X account, and an Instagram account, but never use or look at them. The experience of each was frustrating because of the difficulty in avoiding the constant efforts to grab my attention from those in whom I had no interest. The whole paradigm of social media has become so poisonous (see 2020's The Social Dilemma, and it's far worse now). I appreciate your kind observation. Perhaps I'll break down and try Bluesky - I understand it has a completely different form of organization compared to Facebook or X. We'll see. I send out a newsletter multiple times per week - if you would like to see one and decide if you would like to receive it, email me at bertrandbartok@gmail.com.
You are correct, Tom. 1st The real original Americans were the indigenous tribes of Homo sapiens arriving between 10,000 and 40,000 years ago, primarily from Asian and some from the Pacific Islands. But they weren't Christians, they came with their own gods and a healthy respect for the Earth.
Personally, I think Vought belongs in a nuthouse - the old-fashioned kind with snake pits and frontal lobotomies.
We, the modern Americans, are a nation of immigrants from all parts of the world. We came to America, at least in my case, because I liked the republican system of government (not party) to the parliamentary system in my native country, Canada.
And I am not willing to change my religious beliefs (non-theist) nor should anyone else. Who, the hell, made Vought the arbiter of what others believe? What's wrong with being Catholic, Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, Shintoist, Hindu. Sikh, or any of the many religions already existing in the United States.
Far from being founded as a Christian Nation, the framers specifically stated in First Amendment, 1st phrase: "Congress shall make NO LAW respecting the establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; (emphasis mine) Anyone stating otherwise is full of bull!@#$.
Ah Fay, don’t hold back! “ Personally, I think Vought belongs in a nuthouse - the old-fashioned kind with snake pits and frontal lobotomies.” Scathing!
Of the thousands of forms of belief that use the name “christian” that exist across the globe I trust that form described in what follows is not what mr vaught has in mind. “Servant of God Dorothy Day
Cofounder of the Catholic Worker (1897–1980)
In his 2015 speech to Congress, Pope Francis included Dorothy Day among his list of four “great Americans” who offer a “new way of seeing and interpreting reality.” Among those in the audience, there were surely some who remembered that she had been called other things: Un-American, Communist, heretic. Now, with her cause for canonization in process, she may one day be called a saint. If so, she will be a saint with an unusual backstory, having spent her youth among Communists and other radicals. An unhappy love affair ended tragically with an abortion.
And yet, following the later birth of a daughter, she underwent a dramatic conversion and became Catholic. She felt that everything in her past had led her to this leap, including the influence of her radical comrades with their passion for justice and love for the poor. She prayed to connect these convictions with her new faith and found an answer through Peter Maurin, a French “peasant-philosopher,” who inspired her to launch the Catholic Worker movement in 1933. In this movement she combined the works of mercy with a critique of the values and systems that create so much misery. Embracing voluntary poverty, she was often arrested in protests for peace, while pointing toward a new world based on solidarity, mercy, and community. Her life was sustained by prayer, devotion to the saints, and the practice of what she called “the duty of delight.” Pointing toward a new model of holiness for our time, Dorothy Day died on November 29, 1980.
“The greatest challenge of the day is: how to bring about a revolution of the heart, a revolution that has to start with each one of us.”—Servant of God Dorothy Day”
Yeah Dorothy Day and co-founder of the Catholic Worker Ammon Hennacy (who I was privileged to know in the 60s) were not the kind of false Xtians Vought and the Claremont scum are.
Thank you, TC, for not painting all Christians with the same brush. The Christian Nationalists are an aberration of their own. Dorothy Day walked the talk.
The one we need to pay attention to in our time is the Lutheran pastor Dietrich Bonhoeffer. He saw what was coming in the Germany of the early 1930’s and experienced the gradual and complete co-option of the church--which already was entangled in the state through a religious tax system that paid pastors.
When the Third Reich tried to control their internal belief systems some church people tried to resist their complete cooption by the State. Thus the Barmen Declaration and the break off Confessing Church.
Bonhoeffer tried to prepare young pastors for a real Christianity that would have to navigate over against the state apparatus, knowing full well that they all faced forced military duty and possible death.
He believed in the non-violence of the Jesus of the Gospel and morally struggled with his involvement in a plan to kill Hitler, who eventually ordered Bonhoeffer’s death (by hanging ) in a concentration camp.
His central action, which we can learn from today, was to form small groups whose members knew and loved one another and could support one another in a fear filled, challenging times ahead. He firmly believed that in this kind of societal climate resistance could not be done on one’s own but with the strength of others.
Carol, I agree that Bonhoeffer sets an example for how Christians should respond to the government. The newly released film may introduce him to a much wider audience now.
Well, he doesn’t even pretend. Like Bannon, these cretins just say it out loud. They are trying to rewrite the script of the revolution and our history. Chump as savior and the left as the consummate evil is a direct result of the libtard nonsense from Rush, and the continued propaganda by Rupert. I agree with him about one thing. There is nothing conservative about these cretins. It is the Putin playbook behind the scenes. They have rewritten the Bible too, quite a feat but possible I guess because it hasn’t seemed like the current crop of self-righteous cretins have a clue what it says. Or maybe they had a conversion when the money and power aspect took over. Whatever the back story, our world is about to be shaken to the depths, even before climate change has a chance to do us in.
Say what “ He went on to say that If the United States fails to understand its Christian heritage, it is in for destruction. “To the extent that you don’t have that consensus, you have a culture and a nation that just disintegrates.”
This guy FAILS to understand Christ’s teaching! As to so called Kristian heritage look no further than Nazi germany and the holocaust! Germany had a supermajority of Kristians and churches while Hitler rose to power!
JDinTX, if you look at them as a snake, for example, you can see they slither as one. Keep up with them individually just to see that they are a part. You can pick up a snake, unlike mercury.
Vought will certainly cause problems in his administrative role, but he's no leader, just an unhappy Tory and Trump fanboy. I don't see legions of disgruntled Christians with spears and shields following Vought into war against his personal demons. Thanks for providing the backstory on him, Tom.
And while the current SC justices are willing enablers of the destruction of the current order, the Catholic majority amongst them may not yet be at the fever pitch Vought is, except for Alito, of course. The others seem more contrarians than dispassionate intellectuals. It might be time to flood the SC zone with letters reminding them of their duties and legacies as interpreters of the law. We always urged to contact our reps and senators, but rarely do we let the justices know we're watching them, history's watching them, and, gee whiz, God is watching them.
Regarding where in the Bible these instructions are….of course, it’s all in the “interpretation”. I follow author Andra Watkins,a CN “escapee”,for her translations of the “Christian” insanity.
Belief 5: Many believe that Black and Brown people are inferior to white people.
While not every Christian Nationalist church teaches the Curse of Ham, many still do. Southern preachers used the Curse of Ham to justify enslaving Black people before the Civil War. Many never stopped trumpeting this abomination from pulpits after the south lost.
The Curse of Ham comes from the story of Noah and the ark. After the flood, Noah’s son Ham got Noah drunk and enticed Noah to sleep with one of his daughters. God cursed Ham and his descendants for this behavior by turning his skin black. Because God cursed Ham’s descendants, God meant for them to be treated as inferior for all time. (I wish I were making this up.)
Anyone can see why white supremacists feel right at home with Christian Nationalists.
The story of Noah and Ham was metaphorical imo. A lot of stories in the bible are just that, a metaphor. Any of these idiots who take everything literally are lying. The bible contradicts itself, allowing the god-botherers to pick and choose.
To note, Roger Williams did not arrive on the Mayflower, but on the appropriately named Lyon 🦁 some years later. Russell Vought and CN would most likely exile RW…again.
Well, yippee - I finally found the way to "update" my credit card so that it actually IS saved!! I had to re-subscribe!!! Then put my cc info in. Even though it's already in there. Every single place I subscribe to has been a hassle only because my expiration date & 3 digit # changed!
Apparently - altho I must have had to update it before - dont remember any problems. I got Civil Discourse straightened out & Tom's - now only two more to figure out. Just a little speed bump!
I wonder what we are going to do. When are the Senate confirmation hearings? Does the entire Senate participate, or is there a committee? Can we communicate our misgivings (terror/horror) to members of that body? Surely they are as aware as we what Trump is lining up. Don't they need to hear from us that we are not in favor? I am not a born leader, but I am a competent and dependable follower when I hear righteous and proper guidance. We need to do something. Any ideas? Thanking you all in advance. I want to continue to be part of the resistance. Now I need to know how.
Here’s an action from Len’s Political Notes.Click on the first link for the latest note from yesterday. Substack wouldn’t allow me to copy/paste. TC,do you know why that’s happening ? Not the 1st time, although I was successful here earlier.
Substack was glitching hard earlier today. I kept getting the heading for the next comment over top of the "reply" button elsewhere so I could not submit comments. A half hour earlier it was fine, now it seems fine.
Please contact your Senators. Email or call. They all vote on confirmation of nominees. Even if you think they will vote against, let them know it is important to you. It matters. They look at the volume and type of contact they get from constituents. Google them to get their office numbers and email addresses.
Horror. And no doubt Vought would keep his word. I am terrified. One sliver of hope here?: "Vought has advocated for creating a new rule that the executive branch can unilaterally refuse to spend money appropriated by Congress. Whether that initiative succeeds will most likely be left to the Roberts Court to decide." Will the Supremely Corrupt Court give the Executive branch the power that could ultimately defund the Supremely Corrupt Court, too? I'm still terrified. Thank you for your service here, TC.
Odd that he thinks this was founded as a Christian nation. Most of the founders were deists, not Christians. Our nation was not founded by a religious movement at all.
Yes there were people who came here for religious freedom, my family being that kind of immigrant, but they had nothing to do with our foundation. In fact, many of the girls and women were burned or tortured to death in the name of religion.
I have trouble even understanding these people. I don't make sense of their opinions. I do hear that they want to destroy, but their logic is crazy.
I guess what matters is not that I understand them. What matters is believing they mean what they say and are serious. These appointees will do real damage.
The soon to be border czar already has the state facility, a huge militaristic jail in Texas, ramping up to be a detention center. Public lands have been offered by the state for detention camps, as well as private land. This is just a beginning of concentration camps in one state.
The damage that can be done by using only loyal civil servants is truly frightening. Civil servants, especially experienced staffers, keep the elected and appointed officials informed. They fill in the details and write legislation/position papers/briefings etc. They perform a function that keeps our government moving.
We absolutely must stick together and fight them any way we can think of.
Excellent, Hannah. My "religious refugee" ancestors would have had nothing to do with these scum. They were busy tying to create the world these guys want to destroy.
Vought is either lying about US history or is abysmally stupid. Thomas Jefferson, in dealing with the Barbary pirates plainly said that America was founded as a secular nation, not a Christian nation.
Same here, Hannah. My ancestors came here in the mid-1600's not because of religion but for resources; fish, furs, timber. Vought's religious fervor is scary; the religious wingnuts are almost always the least tethered to reality and the most attached to violence to get their way.
Same here. Mine on one side came in 1630, and while religious freedom may have played a part, it was as you say, for land, resources and opportunities that didn’t exist in England. The other side came a bit later having originally been kicked out of France, and ended up here when England and Holland didn’t suit (they were Huguenots). Determined men with small minds often take advantage of a society grown complacent, not acquainted with history, and slow to catch on. Meanwhile, I’m sitting here on a sunny day looking out the window at my quiet, pleasant neighborhood wondering how we get ahead of the coming shitstorm. We’re certainly on the path by coming together and believing we can ultimately prevail, but the cost may be very, very high either way. Not how I envisioned spending my dotage!
We’re certainly on the path by coming together and believing we can ultimately prevail, but the cost may be very, very high either way. Not how I envisioned spending my dotage!
Wait till you read about Kash Patel.
I did, Tom and it is both sickening and horribly scary. I keep hoping for a Christmas miracle CVA or myocardial infarction. but I'm prepared for Santa to disappoint me yet again. (I never did get my pony).
the Kash Patel story in The Atlantic (either October or November) was pretty comprehensive. he's a little easier to understand than these more "existential" types like Vought. he's just trying to "get even" because he wasn't taken seriously by his old bosses. but the FBI??
I'd hate to see how that could go. I don't even want to think about it. let's remember that this is being said by someone who came to political consciousness when the FBI was rightly considered to be one of the faces of evil...Hoover in his dotage, etc. I bet you've got quite the file, Tom.
Supposedly, the COINTELPRO files were all destroyed...
Except they are not loyal to Jesus who said to love others as you love yourself. They idolize power.
I need another choice besides ‘like’. This is dreadful but needed information.
Yes.
I simply write don’t like! Or use an emoji!
Vought: “We’re not a secular country. That we are a Christian Nation as founded and that should be shared by everyone even if they have religious liberty for another faith.”
Fact: We are a secular country. The Constitution does not contain the word God. No federal law has as its justification what is stated in the Bible taken as authoritative fact.
Vought: “To the extent that you don’t have that consensus [Christian heritage], you have a culture and a nation that just disintegrates.”
Fact: The U.S. has not disintegrated yet, and if it does, it will be because of fascism that is substantially supported by Christian fundamentalists, not by a coalition of non-Christians.
Vought: told Charlie Kirk in February that he isn’t so much a Christian nationalist, then said that Christian nationalism is "probably be the most accurate aspect of what I believe.”
Fact: This is blatantly incoherent.
Vought: the Bible demands drastic limitations on legal immigration and mass deportations.
Fact: No it doesn't.
Vought: “We have lost the ability in our public square to hear from Judeo-Christian values."
Fact: People espousing Judeo-Christian beliefs are everywhere in every form of media constantly
Vought: The progressive movement under the leadership of Woodrow Wilson figured out how to “radically pervert” the constitution without having to officially amend it, to “keep up with a modernizing nation.”
Fact: Legal rulings from the appellate and Supreme Court as to constitutional matters have been handed down since the nation's birth, in response to new events. The great majority of these rulings have been deeply conservative. The rule of law is not a perversion of the Constitution, whatever that means.
Vought: “We are in a post-constitutional moment in our country. We have entered a new arrangement – a new regime if you will –that pays only lip service to the old Constitution.”
Fact: The U.S. Supreme Court, espousing dedication to originalism, a deeply conservative practice, is highly politicized and manipulated in favor of ultraconservative policies. That is the attack on the Constitution, such as deeming Presidential acts legal if carried out in some fashion within the context of recognized duties.
Vought: There is a “permanent ruling class” of leftist elites who control "unelected bureaucrats, civil servants."
Fact: The ruling class in America is the wealth class that inhabits and uses the corporations, policy-making councils, think tanks and lobbying firms that are deeply interconnected and socially cohesive. (See Who Rules America?, by G. William Domhoff.)
Vought: Conservatives need to become “radical constitutionalists”, “throw off the precedents”, “be radical in discarding or rethinking the legal paradigms that have confined our ability to return to the original Constitution.”
Fact: This is gibberish, untethered to any serious discussion of constitutional law. It is authoritarian/fascist intention masquerading as something real.
Vought: Republican governors should take control of the border themselves.
Fact: Not their job, responsibility or right.
Vought: The current “regime” has no legitimacy.
Fact: That is a fact-free assertion that is so vaugue it is useless except as propaganda (meant to provoke the easily-triggered).
Vought: The Left wants “a monarch with massive historic grandeur and symbolism and no remaining authority,” leaving federal power to "experts" like Tony Fauci to wield power behind the curtains.” An "energetic" President should "bend the executive branch to the will of the American people."
Fact: The office of the President has remained extremely powerful, and unelected officials such as Anthony Fauci have no autonomous power. Any President who sought to establish policies that represented the "will of the people" would put into place a progressive agenda, which remains nationally popular.
Vought: “the hour is late, and time is of the essence”, “woke and weaponized”, "increasingly arrayed against the American people,” “domestic terrorists”, “putting political opponents in jail”, “existential threat” to the leftist regime, “break the political cartels,” “meddling at the margins”, “cast ourselves as dissidents", "the late hour that our country finds itself in.”
Fact: Incoherent, fascist fear mongering.
Vought: Conviction of election interference in a state court is "a corrupt marxist vanguard pulling out all the stops to protect their own power."
Fact: More fact-free, wildly exaggerated fascist fear mongering.
Vought" Put "agents" of the “deep state” [civil servants] “in trauma.”
Vought: Invoke the Insurrection Act "shut down the riots" with no legal recourse.
Fact: A protest, even one that involves some form of property damage, is not an insurrection. Vought is calling for a fascist authoritarian state that no longer honors the First Amendment.
Vought: Donald Trump is a "gift from God."
Fact: A God that gives Donald Trump as a gift is not a God I recognize, and no one who takes Christ's teachings seriously would, either.
In my view, Vought is a fascist-supporting, religious extremist whose statements are incoherent, fact-free and highly dangerous. He should be resisted at every turn. Let your elected officials know that this is what you demand.
"Vought" Put "agents" of the “deep state” [civil servants] “in trauma.”
That is a disturbing threat and should be treated as such.
I agree with Faye Reid; Vought belongs in a nuthouse.
He should at least be checked for a brain tumor. At what point in his life did this paranoia emerge and get him to duck behind Christianity as a shield? When did he think Trump was a gift from God, when Trump is clearly a Calibanlike "gift from the primordial slime."
I have to wonder what kind of childhood this guy had.
No brain tumor, soul void
I was reading something earlier today (Joyce Vance maybe?) and thought, as I often have of late, that it sure does seem like a lot of people become unbalanced over the last few years. Maybe covid baked a few more brains than we realized.
These guys have been "baking" for decades.
At least
Magas have ‘alternative facts’!
Thank you for this, Gary
Gary, you sure put effort into that. 👏👏👏
Hey, thanks for the applause! I went through TC's post and pulled out the direct quotes of Vought's, and added a few observations. It is easy to find outrageous things Vought has said because nearly everything he has said that's public is straight out the same extremist playbook that is so unimaginative and superficlal and incurious that it appears that with regard to this ideology nothing will ever touch it - certainly not the facts.
On Bluesky? If not, join. Put each of these pairings as separate (wait - what do they call tweets on Bluesky?) separate flutters or whatever... maybe four or five a day. Let me know and I'll follow you!
According to the BlueSky COO, "We call them 'posts'."
I have a Twitter/X account, and an Instagram account, but never use or look at them. The experience of each was frustrating because of the difficulty in avoiding the constant efforts to grab my attention from those in whom I had no interest. The whole paradigm of social media has become so poisonous (see 2020's The Social Dilemma, and it's far worse now). I appreciate your kind observation. Perhaps I'll break down and try Bluesky - I understand it has a completely different form of organization compared to Facebook or X. We'll see. I send out a newsletter multiple times per week - if you would like to see one and decide if you would like to receive it, email me at bertrandbartok@gmail.com.
BlueSky is as good as they say.
Hey, thanks, TC. Good to know.
You are correct, Tom. 1st The real original Americans were the indigenous tribes of Homo sapiens arriving between 10,000 and 40,000 years ago, primarily from Asian and some from the Pacific Islands. But they weren't Christians, they came with their own gods and a healthy respect for the Earth.
Personally, I think Vought belongs in a nuthouse - the old-fashioned kind with snake pits and frontal lobotomies.
We, the modern Americans, are a nation of immigrants from all parts of the world. We came to America, at least in my case, because I liked the republican system of government (not party) to the parliamentary system in my native country, Canada.
And I am not willing to change my religious beliefs (non-theist) nor should anyone else. Who, the hell, made Vought the arbiter of what others believe? What's wrong with being Catholic, Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, Shintoist, Hindu. Sikh, or any of the many religions already existing in the United States.
Far from being founded as a Christian Nation, the framers specifically stated in First Amendment, 1st phrase: "Congress shall make NO LAW respecting the establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; (emphasis mine) Anyone stating otherwise is full of bull!@#$.
Personally, I think Vought belongs in a nuthouse - the old-fashioned kind with snake pits and frontal lobotomies.
YES!
Ah Fay, don’t hold back! “ Personally, I think Vought belongs in a nuthouse - the old-fashioned kind with snake pits and frontal lobotomies.” Scathing!
Of the thousands of forms of belief that use the name “christian” that exist across the globe I trust that form described in what follows is not what mr vaught has in mind. “Servant of God Dorothy Day
Cofounder of the Catholic Worker (1897–1980)
In his 2015 speech to Congress, Pope Francis included Dorothy Day among his list of four “great Americans” who offer a “new way of seeing and interpreting reality.” Among those in the audience, there were surely some who remembered that she had been called other things: Un-American, Communist, heretic. Now, with her cause for canonization in process, she may one day be called a saint. If so, she will be a saint with an unusual backstory, having spent her youth among Communists and other radicals. An unhappy love affair ended tragically with an abortion.
And yet, following the later birth of a daughter, she underwent a dramatic conversion and became Catholic. She felt that everything in her past had led her to this leap, including the influence of her radical comrades with their passion for justice and love for the poor. She prayed to connect these convictions with her new faith and found an answer through Peter Maurin, a French “peasant-philosopher,” who inspired her to launch the Catholic Worker movement in 1933. In this movement she combined the works of mercy with a critique of the values and systems that create so much misery. Embracing voluntary poverty, she was often arrested in protests for peace, while pointing toward a new world based on solidarity, mercy, and community. Her life was sustained by prayer, devotion to the saints, and the practice of what she called “the duty of delight.” Pointing toward a new model of holiness for our time, Dorothy Day died on November 29, 1980.
“The greatest challenge of the day is: how to bring about a revolution of the heart, a revolution that has to start with each one of us.”—Servant of God Dorothy Day”
Yeah Dorothy Day and co-founder of the Catholic Worker Ammon Hennacy (who I was privileged to know in the 60s) were not the kind of false Xtians Vought and the Claremont scum are.
Thank you, TC, for not painting all Christians with the same brush. The Christian Nationalists are an aberration of their own. Dorothy Day walked the talk.
The one we need to pay attention to in our time is the Lutheran pastor Dietrich Bonhoeffer. He saw what was coming in the Germany of the early 1930’s and experienced the gradual and complete co-option of the church--which already was entangled in the state through a religious tax system that paid pastors.
When the Third Reich tried to control their internal belief systems some church people tried to resist their complete cooption by the State. Thus the Barmen Declaration and the break off Confessing Church.
Bonhoeffer tried to prepare young pastors for a real Christianity that would have to navigate over against the state apparatus, knowing full well that they all faced forced military duty and possible death.
He believed in the non-violence of the Jesus of the Gospel and morally struggled with his involvement in a plan to kill Hitler, who eventually ordered Bonhoeffer’s death (by hanging ) in a concentration camp.
His central action, which we can learn from today, was to form small groups whose members knew and loved one another and could support one another in a fear filled, challenging times ahead. He firmly believed that in this kind of societal climate resistance could not be done on one’s own but with the strength of others.
I'll never be a Christian, but I have met a few who not only talked the talk, but walked the walk.
Carol, I agree that Bonhoeffer sets an example for how Christians should respond to the government. The newly released film may introduce him to a much wider audience now.
Well, he doesn’t even pretend. Like Bannon, these cretins just say it out loud. They are trying to rewrite the script of the revolution and our history. Chump as savior and the left as the consummate evil is a direct result of the libtard nonsense from Rush, and the continued propaganda by Rupert. I agree with him about one thing. There is nothing conservative about these cretins. It is the Putin playbook behind the scenes. They have rewritten the Bible too, quite a feat but possible I guess because it hasn’t seemed like the current crop of self-righteous cretins have a clue what it says. Or maybe they had a conversion when the money and power aspect took over. Whatever the back story, our world is about to be shaken to the depths, even before climate change has a chance to do us in.
Say what “ He went on to say that If the United States fails to understand its Christian heritage, it is in for destruction. “To the extent that you don’t have that consensus, you have a culture and a nation that just disintegrates.”
This guy FAILS to understand Christ’s teaching! As to so called Kristian heritage look no further than Nazi germany and the holocaust! Germany had a supermajority of Kristians and churches while Hitler rose to power!
I am not a Christian, but upon exposure to Jesus, thought "we think alike". These CN's have nothing to do with Jesus.
Happy to be a paid subscriber in these terrible times. We have no choice but to stay in the fight.
but the battle lines keep moving, and the vipers are shape shifters. It’s like containing mercury
JDinTX, if you look at them as a snake, for example, you can see they slither as one. Keep up with them individually just to see that they are a part. You can pick up a snake, unlike mercury.
I would always avoid snakes, getting harder
How about armadillos? Is that a better metaphor?
Nah, I’ll stick with vipers. Armadillos are sort of cute and harmless
Vought will certainly cause problems in his administrative role, but he's no leader, just an unhappy Tory and Trump fanboy. I don't see legions of disgruntled Christians with spears and shields following Vought into war against his personal demons. Thanks for providing the backstory on him, Tom.
And while the current SC justices are willing enablers of the destruction of the current order, the Catholic majority amongst them may not yet be at the fever pitch Vought is, except for Alito, of course. The others seem more contrarians than dispassionate intellectuals. It might be time to flood the SC zone with letters reminding them of their duties and legacies as interpreters of the law. We always urged to contact our reps and senators, but rarely do we let the justices know we're watching them, history's watching them, and, gee whiz, God is watching them.
I don't think they care about us at all. They have a cushy job for life. Totally insulated from the world.
That they don't care about us at all is the tell that their starchy catholicism is just an empty uniform they wear so they can recognize one another.
Regarding where in the Bible these instructions are….of course, it’s all in the “interpretation”. I follow author Andra Watkins,a CN “escapee”,for her translations of the “Christian” insanity.
Belief 5: Many believe that Black and Brown people are inferior to white people.
While not every Christian Nationalist church teaches the Curse of Ham, many still do. Southern preachers used the Curse of Ham to justify enslaving Black people before the Civil War. Many never stopped trumpeting this abomination from pulpits after the south lost.
The Curse of Ham comes from the story of Noah and the ark. After the flood, Noah’s son Ham got Noah drunk and enticed Noah to sleep with one of his daughters. God cursed Ham and his descendants for this behavior by turning his skin black. Because God cursed Ham’s descendants, God meant for them to be treated as inferior for all time. (I wish I were making this up.)
Anyone can see why white supremacists feel right at home with Christian Nationalists.
https://open.substack.com/pub/andrawatkins/p/what-is-a-christian-nationalist?r=fqsxl&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
The story of Noah and Ham was metaphorical imo. A lot of stories in the bible are just that, a metaphor. Any of these idiots who take everything literally are lying. The bible contradicts itself, allowing the god-botherers to pick and choose.
Awful! We never learned this Curse of Ham in Catholic School, though we learned similar abominations daily.
Have to be a paid subscriber to read it.
White Christian Nationalism. They’ve got tons of money and power. And they’re very, very serious. Check out Star Spangled Jesus by April Ajoy.
This is a very illuminating discussion about it.
https://youtu.be/TFuSkd63ZVs?si=d9tgiaoKVVeQBtuS
MAPA - Make America Puritan Again?
Close. It's really too bad that leaky old tub the Mayflower didn't founder mid-Atlantic and take them all down with it.
To note, Roger Williams did not arrive on the Mayflower, but on the appropriately named Lyon 🦁 some years later. Russell Vought and CN would most likely exile RW…again.
Well, some of my DNA would be different, but I don't disagree.
Well, yippee - I finally found the way to "update" my credit card so that it actually IS saved!! I had to re-subscribe!!! Then put my cc info in. Even though it's already in there. Every single place I subscribe to has been a hassle only because my expiration date & 3 digit # changed!
It was a pain.
Glad to see it was resolved.
Yeah - sorry if I was a bit p***y about it. But its been going on for days & on all four blogs I follow! A bit frustrating - know what I mean?
It's not just you. Mine was up to date and it kept being rejected too. It is something specific to Substack.
Apparently - altho I must have had to update it before - dont remember any problems. I got Civil Discourse straightened out & Tom's - now only two more to figure out. Just a little speed bump!
I wonder what we are going to do. When are the Senate confirmation hearings? Does the entire Senate participate, or is there a committee? Can we communicate our misgivings (terror/horror) to members of that body? Surely they are as aware as we what Trump is lining up. Don't they need to hear from us that we are not in favor? I am not a born leader, but I am a competent and dependable follower when I hear righteous and proper guidance. We need to do something. Any ideas? Thanking you all in advance. I want to continue to be part of the resistance. Now I need to know how.
Here’s an action from Len’s Political Notes.Click on the first link for the latest note from yesterday. Substack wouldn’t allow me to copy/paste. TC,do you know why that’s happening ? Not the 1st time, although I was successful here earlier.
https://lenspoliticalnotes.com/
If yuou post something and it doesn't eem to show up, hit "refresh" and it will. It's a substack glitch.
Substack was glitching hard earlier today. I kept getting the heading for the next comment over top of the "reply" button elsewhere so I could not submit comments. A half hour earlier it was fine, now it seems fine.
I kept collapsing comments as I was reading them. Substack has some odd idiosyncrasies.
Thanks, Kathy.
Please contact your Senators. Email or call. They all vote on confirmation of nominees. Even if you think they will vote against, let them know it is important to you. It matters. They look at the volume and type of contact they get from constituents. Google them to get their office numbers and email addresses.
I will. Thanks, Hannah.
I just emailed them both. I will follow up with calls if I don't like the email responses I get.
good piece, Tom. but ewwww...if it's made me as nauseated as it has from my just READING it, god knows where that leaves you.
sick fuck...the only positive thing to say about him is that he's honest about his evil; he sees no need to cover the stink.
Horror. And no doubt Vought would keep his word. I am terrified. One sliver of hope here?: "Vought has advocated for creating a new rule that the executive branch can unilaterally refuse to spend money appropriated by Congress. Whether that initiative succeeds will most likely be left to the Roberts Court to decide." Will the Supremely Corrupt Court give the Executive branch the power that could ultimately defund the Supremely Corrupt Court, too? I'm still terrified. Thank you for your service here, TC.