Allen, I think that the bottom line with this war is that Putin must be defeated. The inner circle of the power structure - oligarchs, military brass, etc., has to turn on him. As the Russian military retreats, Putin will break Ukraine - destroy the infrastructure, starve the populace and freeze the people. Aleppo is the example that occurs to me. What do you think of this line of reasoning?
Allen, I think that the bottom line with this war is that Putin must be defeated. The inner circle of the power structure - oligarchs, military brass, etc., has to turn on him. As the Russian military retreats, Putin will break Ukraine - destroy the infrastructure, starve the populace and freeze the people. Aleppo is the example that occurs to me. What do you think of this line of reasoning?
More than defeated. He must be humiliated and destroyed. Russia must sue of peace under Ukrainian terms before Ukraine is safe. He has apparently retired to his Billion dollar mansion in Sochi. Kadyrov is moving Chechens to Moscow in case of a popular uprising but it will more likely be an inside job.
Of course Biden, Macron and Schultz do not want to see this happen or they would have long ago given Ukraine the weapons it needs instead of just trickling them in a bit at a time.
FFS, Russia will not go nuclear. Honest to God, Americans are the most frightened people on the F'ing planet. The countries nearest Ukraine are less worried than Americans, They worry about Russia winning as it puts them in immediate danger. America has supplied a huge number of weapons to Ukraine but never as many as needed nor in a timely manner. Germany has supplied weapons but only begrudgingly and has done everything in its power to stymie help for Ukraine. I have no idea why.
Allen, I'm not one of those 'Americans'. I brought up nuclear asking you if that is the reason Biden et al. don't want to absolutely stick it Putin to force him out, if we can. Why do you think 'they' don't want him out?
They don't care what happens to Putin. They kept saying escalation, escalation, escalation. All the time Ukrainian civilians are dying or wounded by the tens of thousands.
The powers that be do not want to see Russian break up into independent countries which it is quite likely to do over the next few years especially if there is a leadership vacuum at the top with several people fighting it out. They did not want to USSR to break up either.
Germany I do not understand. The German people are solidly behind Ukraine but the top people are not.
Thank you, Allen. I will look for books and other sources to find out what the Western position is visa vie Russia and Eastern Europe. At its core -- is there a core -- how clear -- how muddled....?? The intelligence arena may offer a path. We'll see what's available.
During our exchange, Allen, I remembered what Biden called Putin last March.. Here it is:
'President Joe Biden on Thursday called Vladimir Putin a тАЬpure thugтАЭ and тАЬmurderous dictator,тАЭ his latest pointed attack against the Russian President as the war in Ukraine rages on.'
'Speaking at the annual Friends of Ireland Luncheon on St. PatrickтАЩs Day at Capitol Hill, Biden said Putin is тАЬa murderous dictator, a pure thug who is waging an immoral war against the people of Ukraine.тАЭ
And earlier Thursday, in a meeting with Miche├бl Martin, the Taoiseach of Ireland, the President also zeroed in on the Russian leader, saying, тАЬPutinтАЩs brutality and what heтАЩs doing and his troops are doing in Ukraine is just inhumane.тАЭ
The comments came a day after Biden called Putin a war criminal тАУ a significant escalation in his rhetoric condemning the Russian leaderтАЩs actions against Ukraine. Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov told reporters on Thursday BidenтАЩs comments were тАЬabsolutely unacceptable and inexcusable.тАЭ (CNN)
I am not ready to believe that this country doesn't have a well defined policy with reference to Russia and Putin. Biden's verbal attacks of him were not a sign that we wanted to play nice. I'll get back to you, Will.
Allen, I think that the bottom line with this war is that Putin must be defeated. The inner circle of the power structure - oligarchs, military brass, etc., has to turn on him. As the Russian military retreats, Putin will break Ukraine - destroy the infrastructure, starve the populace and freeze the people. Aleppo is the example that occurs to me. What do you think of this line of reasoning?
More than defeated. He must be humiliated and destroyed. Russia must sue of peace under Ukrainian terms before Ukraine is safe. He has apparently retired to his Billion dollar mansion in Sochi. Kadyrov is moving Chechens to Moscow in case of a popular uprising but it will more likely be an inside job.
Of course Biden, Macron and Schultz do not want to see this happen or they would have long ago given Ukraine the weapons it needs instead of just trickling them in a bit at a time.
How could Biden and Shultz not want it? They must want to eliminate him. I don't understand Allen. Putin could go nuclear at any point.
FFS, Russia will not go nuclear. Honest to God, Americans are the most frightened people on the F'ing planet. The countries nearest Ukraine are less worried than Americans, They worry about Russia winning as it puts them in immediate danger. America has supplied a huge number of weapons to Ukraine but never as many as needed nor in a timely manner. Germany has supplied weapons but only begrudgingly and has done everything in its power to stymie help for Ukraine. I have no idea why.
Allen, I'm not one of those 'Americans'. I brought up nuclear asking you if that is the reason Biden et al. don't want to absolutely stick it Putin to force him out, if we can. Why do you think 'they' don't want him out?
They don't care what happens to Putin. They kept saying escalation, escalation, escalation. All the time Ukrainian civilians are dying or wounded by the tens of thousands.
The powers that be do not want to see Russian break up into independent countries which it is quite likely to do over the next few years especially if there is a leadership vacuum at the top with several people fighting it out. They did not want to USSR to break up either.
Germany I do not understand. The German people are solidly behind Ukraine but the top people are not.
Thank you, Allen. I will look for books and other sources to find out what the Western position is visa vie Russia and Eastern Europe. At its core -- is there a core -- how clear -- how muddled....?? The intelligence arena may offer a path. We'll see what's available.
Thank you. As Will Rogers said, I only know what I read in the papers
During our exchange, Allen, I remembered what Biden called Putin last March.. Here it is:
'President Joe Biden on Thursday called Vladimir Putin a тАЬpure thugтАЭ and тАЬmurderous dictator,тАЭ his latest pointed attack against the Russian President as the war in Ukraine rages on.'
'Speaking at the annual Friends of Ireland Luncheon on St. PatrickтАЩs Day at Capitol Hill, Biden said Putin is тАЬa murderous dictator, a pure thug who is waging an immoral war against the people of Ukraine.тАЭ
And earlier Thursday, in a meeting with Miche├бl Martin, the Taoiseach of Ireland, the President also zeroed in on the Russian leader, saying, тАЬPutinтАЩs brutality and what heтАЩs doing and his troops are doing in Ukraine is just inhumane.тАЭ
The comments came a day after Biden called Putin a war criminal тАУ a significant escalation in his rhetoric condemning the Russian leaderтАЩs actions against Ukraine. Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov told reporters on Thursday BidenтАЩs comments were тАЬabsolutely unacceptable and inexcusable.тАЭ (CNN)
I am not ready to believe that this country doesn't have a well defined policy with reference to Russia and Putin. Biden's verbal attacks of him were not a sign that we wanted to play nice. I'll get back to you, Will.
I know all that.
I'll still get back to you.