I loved Perlstein's piece and shared it on Facebook. I share his concerns and most of his views. But I also think we forget that there IS an element of anti-semitism in some of the protests, just as some of the pro-Israeli people are not necessarily anti-Palestinian so much as pro-Israel.
It's a little like debates about the coming of the US Civil War (an area where I feel more knowledgeable!). Some thought in terms of politics, some about free labor, some about the moral issue, some about the legal issue, some about regional economics, but slavery was at the center of it all. What Israel is doing in Gaza is wrong, but those objecting to it come from different approaches.
I will say this: At a recent demonstration on behalf of Israel, there were several MAGA hats. Need I say more about Nazism and fascism, and the dubiety of working with certain allies? Then again, I tend to think of Netanyahu as someone who could have gotten along well in 1930s Germany.
Netanyahu's father and other founder-leaders of the fascist-admiring Likud Party had no problem collaborating with Hitler's SS pre-WW2, only being forced to stop by the news of Kristallnacht.
About the MAGA hats -- you're probably aware of the affinity right-wing Christians often have for Israel? Trump played to it in moving the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem. This unholy alliance goes back well over a century, well before the Nazis came along, and not just on this side of the Atlantic either.
what's funny is that when I hear Jewish folks mention this hideous fact, I ask them if they realize that when this Rapture thing happens, all of us ("us" being Jews) are going straight to hell.
All but 144,000, who will proclaim Robot Jeebus the "Messiah." But yes, the rest of you folks are destined for "the fiery pit." With "friends" like these, Israel needs no enemies.
I know! Last month I got to see the documentary _'Til Kingdom Come,_ which deals with exactly this. Maya Zinshtein, the director-producer, is an Israeli filmmaker. One of the key informants is an Israeli woman who acts as a sort of intermediary between the Christian Zionists (esp. in a hardscrabble community in Kentucky) and Israel. I kept wondering "WTH is she thinking??" More about it here: https://www.documentary.org/project/til-kingdom-come-0
I think of posers for hire on the right like James O'Keefe and boogaloos, Proud Boys, and Oath Keepers, provocateurs looking to ignite that new civil war they're itching for, and I realize that the idealistic and moralistic young are vulnerable to the predations of such bad guys. They are destructive subversives, and, yes, I believe they sit in the trees waiting to swoop down on anything that has a political meal for them.
But I also believe that some kids need to learn to separate out a national group from its leaders and recognize that leaders with bad intentions are not representative of their people in all their dealings. We can't let Netanyahu make pariahs of the Jews, just as Putin is not Russia, and dog knows Trump was not America when he parked his ample butt and inadequate mind behind the desk in the Oval Office. The kids are living out what they learned in Sunday school, in Temple, and in the Mosques, various versions of the Golden Rule. They do not want to see children roasted, broken, and starved. Does that make them bad?
Of course these kids are not BAD - just young & no matter on which "side" - swept along by group think in too many cases. Peaceful protest is great - but the peaceful part kind of gets lost way too easily - being convinced to follow along and join in is easy.
For once, there was someone with a camera when this happened:
"The 65-year-old former head of Dartmouth’s Jewish studies program who dared scream "What are you doing?" at cops being taken down with a wrestling move that also left her with an arm wrenched behind her back. Then a second cop arriving to keep her pinned as a third looks on blithely, rifle at the ready. (She was suspended by her university for her trouble.)"
And honestly, sitting here watching tv - I yelled the same thing she did.
The demands that colleges divest themselves of various incomes/research/whatever are kind of ridiculous. But making the effort to meet with the protesters and TALK? Could it be that might be better than putting snipers on building OR throwing senior citizens to the ground?
Honestly, I had little sympathy for the students protesting, but on the other hand, who or where are the supposed adults here? Certainly not law enforcement!
I know I heard of at least one college that had actually met with the kids & made progress - thought it was Dartmouth but looked it up & apparently not - they had a mess there too. I know I didnt dream it - but darned if I can find where it was.
As I said above - my sympathy really didnt land on the students side. But this kind of police over-reaction? Enough already.
when has law enforcement personnel on a college campus resulted in anything good? I am open to examples, but can't think of any myself.
disasters, on the other hand, seem to be very much the rule.
cops on a campus are out of their depth and have virtually no training for such circumstances. and when you factor in a police force almost infinitely more militarized than it was fifty years ago.
I've been shouting for thirty years that, for whatever reason, the government has wanted to deprive most students of their attention spans, knowledge base and, of course, any ability to think for themselves.
for the last few weeks, I've been reading faculty assessments by college students. I recommend this, but if you do it, prepare to be horrified. teachers are downgraded for not providing power point presentations of EVERYTHING, for giving challenging exams, for requiring actual term papers, for assigning too much reading, for demanding attendance, for giving grades less than A's, for pretty much everything everybody took for granted as being the rules when I was in school. prevailed when I was a student.
so the intelligence of these TV reporters with their ivy league degrees should not be taken for granted. at all.
I also read that at one of the campuses the students wanted an automatic pass/fail grade OR I guess because of "what they went thru" an automatic PASS!
The education kids are getting in K-12 is so lacking in EDUCATION! One of things that sticks in my craw (!) is the fact that kids arent being taught cursive - the ABILITY to write! I guess they all know how to print so maybe thats what matters?
I know, THAT is a less important issue compared to the lack of actually teaching them how to live in this world, or perhaps their own history.
And yes, the militarization of police forces is frankly absolute stupidity.
I havent read anything lately about the "police campus" mess in Atlanta. Doesnt seem to be a big enough issue to write about for our "journalists". Frankly, destroying a natural area - a park with wildlife that everyone could enjoy - one thats close to an area of minority neighborhood - so that the police can have a training area to practice their "takedowns" of (I guess) anyone who disagrees with the people in power? Just on the face of it - doesnt that appear to be a bad idea?
Thanks, Judith. This is commentary from a local columnist and dad of a recent college graduate.
“Maybe you disagree. But the students were calling for the same divestment tactics Florida’s governor has tried to apply to companies that he believes are too “woke.” Except the students’ target wasn’t companies involved with clean energy but rather dead kids.”
There's a paywall, but I get the general point and agree that there's been too much hysteria. I'm loathe to come down too hard on the young. They can't really help that they're young, now, can they? I regret that my generation and my own kids' generation have left such a mess for my grandkids' generation. We can't rear our young to stand up for what they believe in and then chastise them when they do. On the other hand, I think the kids will figure it out eventually. They just have to learn that violence is for boxing and the battlefield. Not giving up on mankind just yet, but maybe next week.
I wonder how long it will take Israel to live down the stain of Netanyahu's reign and the moral and political hazards his government has placed on Israel, hazards that country must live with for some time - as Germany, Japan, and we, must live down our past sins, striving to do better in the future.
That urge to make and take sides, to paint one group as the good guys and another as the bad guys not matter how mixed the actual situation, to have someone(s) to target and feel okay about hating on - that underlies a lot of the agony over "deciding" who is good as we read about this mess. Maybe we need to go back to Gandhi and start by declaring that no one is a fit target for hatred.
Can’t find the good guys with an electron microscope, can it be that there aren’t any? Or maybe the good bad battle is within us all. So who gets to protest.
Thank you for this. I've had my fill of mostly male commentators about my age (almost 73) comparing what's going on now to 1968 as if all that happened in 1968 was the "siege of Chicago" and the antiwar protests were mainly about the draft. I especially hate revisionism when it tries to revise events I took part in. The whole thing about "outside agitators" is so, so familiar. Notice how these university administrators love inviting guest speakers and members of the local community onto the campus but hate it when students take the initiative? The alliance with armed law enforcement is new, at least at predominantly white schools. Back in the day, we expected to get tear-gassed if things got a little rowdy, but we didn't expect to have rifles aimed at us.
Kudos to Rick, Bravo and Hurrah. For days now I have been commenting all over Substack that I suspect we are getting sold a bill of goods by the media.
There are never DETAILS. The only report I could find of a Jewish student saying WHAT she was afraid of was shouts of "Free Palestine" which someone has convinced her means "eliminate Israel." Uh, girl child that ain't what it means. How many other threatened students are hearing what isn't actually meant by the shouts. Yes, there are some antisemitic dingbats; they aren't limited to campus, in case anyone hasn't noticed. All that is being reported are allegations and apparent mind reading of the students. And of the motives of the "outside agitators" who could be coaching students on MLKs use of peaceful Civil Disobedience. Not ONE report of what the "agitators" are actually saying. Just assumptions that they must be evil. Evidence, the need for you has long been banished by Fox and the devotees of The Big Lie.
I've also been highly, highly skeptical that the cops have been needed. Why do administrators think they need to be, instead of the successful negotiations other universities have had that were followed by a literal folding up of tents. I think the key word here is Elise Stefanik. Nothing like a threat to lose all your funding to create an urgent need to act tough even if it isn't needed.
Another good analysis is found here: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2024/05/israel-gaza-war-protest-movement/678303/ It does document some of the more putrid shouts. But I keep thinking: If "Free Palestine" sends some student shivering in fear away from classes--what is the emotion that is aroused by being faced by cops in riot gear when all you've personally done is sit on a lawn and decry the killing of children.
The Breaking News just a couple of hours ago is that Biden has said we are NOT going to supply typical offensive weapons if any more action is taken in Rafah. I found his speech yesterday a bit misleading, though it WAS a Holocaust Day event. But I applaud this action and hope he sticks with it--or even more, doesn't have to because Bibi finally caves.
Democracy is not a spectator sport. The students are protesting in the one way that Gandhi and Martin Luther King practiced, and doing it in the best venue to get results. Their protest is not meant to provide sanctuary or aid to the people of Gaza, it's meant to change the position of our government: supporting the Netanyahu blitzkrieg in Gaza.
and, to some degree, I'd say they've been successful, at least to a degree. without the demonstrations, would Biden have considered cutting off (or at least LIMITING) military support of Israel? I doubt it.
from Sara Wexler, a jewish doctoral student at Columbia:
"We are told that we need a state that is based on ethnicity in the 21st century and that’s the only way Jewish people can be safe. But it is really for Britain and America and other imperialist states to have a presence in the Middle East. I’ve no idea why people still believe this narrative. It makes no sense to have a place for Jewish people that requires other people to suffer and die.”
I'd say she has a point. war sucks. but it's still a point unsullied by any deep knowledge of this immensely complicated historical issue.
it is the current horrifying Israeli leadership that seems to require "other people to suffer and die." there is nothing about the existence of Israel AS SUCH that demands anybody be killed.
and let's remember that the day of the Hamas atrocities, while rape and murder was still going on, a few statements from groups in some of the most "elite" universities in the country were already saying that those atrocities were entirely Israel's fault.
at very least, a really bad look. fuck them where they breathe.
The overwhelming majority of demonstrations against the Vietnam War were not violent. I know this because I participated in many of them, often as a marshal/peacekeeper. They didn't "tear this country apart," but they did show where some serious fissures were. Same goes for the civil rights movement, and the women's movement, and even the urban riots of the mid/late 1960s. (As Phil Ochs sang about the riots, "So wrong, so wrong, but we've been down so long / And we had to make somebody listen.")
Yes, maybe ask these kids exactly how they think they are helping the women and children in Gaza by protesting against their colleges. As Joan said - NO ONE should be a target for hatred. Thats what these "demonstrations" seem to end up being - hatred from one group for another. Lack of communication - dont we have more than enough of that already?
How are they helping? Perhaps, we’ll never know since bibi’s goal is to annihilate all Gazans! Personally, the initial protests screamed enough with the slaughter of innocent Palistians!
All this hand-wringing reminds me of what Marx - Groucho, not Karl - said, "Who you gonna believe, me or your own lying eyes?" As Pearlstein points out, everyone is lying here, but the propensity for self-loathing amongst Jews themselves is a bit redundant. After October 7, the majority of the military action has been advanced by Bibi and his IDF. The way this ends is if someone in the war cabinet walks out and forces Netanyahu to accept a ceasefire. We'll see.
it's certainly very well said, and I'm very much a Perlstein fan, so I take this all very seriously.
and I know perfectly well that anything I see on TV news is hardly going to be reliable. to quote Tom a few days back..."if it bleeds, it leads."
since I'm not in the most mobile shape of my life (that is to say, if I suddenly had to move quickly in a large-ish group, I could go down like a bowling pin), I can't go from campus to campus to find out what's REALLY going on. I have a few friends who have access to a few campuses, but on every campus, shit can turn ugly very quickly. THEY tell me that things tend to be ok, until the cops show up. big fucking surprise.
on the other hand, the phrase "outside agitators" is one that immediately makes me suspicious.
and, in general, the idea that it's the job of college to makes students feel "safe" at all times is like some kind of horrible joke. obviously, physical safety of students is essential, but most of the time (I suspect), they're talking about "emotional safety," which is....WHAT?? I'm inclined to answer "bullshit" or, more politely, "who the fuck sez?"
I'll have to read this another day. It threw me when I read that it's 2000 miles from Chicago to Boston, and I worried that Perlstein might be getting other stuff equally wrong. It's actually slightly less than 1,000 miles between Boston to Chicago by road! I suppose it's possible that Perlstein has never driven it--something that I first did at 17, but he could have at least looked at a US map, or a globe.
That's called a typo that didn't get checked against deadline. Writers have them all the time. There's even a rule about it The Tillman (for my friend Barrett Tillman) Rule: "no matter how many times a manuscript is copyedited by different people, the worst typo will only be discovered the week of release."
me too, and I consider myself neurodiverse as well and always have. my shtick is to NEVER let a typo or obvious grammatical error (assuming I can find them) into even my shortest post. nobody's perfect in these matters, but I feel compelled to self-police, often to a fault.
As I read the article in context, I skipped right over the typos et al. Typically for me, minor editing errors that have little to do with the actual message are absorbed by the overall
Someone once said, “Follow the Money”. I thought it was good advice
the Amazon "reviewers" I HATE are those dumb bastards who'' give a book a one-star rating because the book arrived late, or wasn't in the shape advertised. it drags down the average rating for the book and tells absolutely nothing of any value for everybody. I love going after those schmucks...
Please go over to the Thomas McKelvey Cleaver page at Amazon and feel free to roam freely through the reviews, and whack the morons. I'll even give you a signed copy of your choice of the books on offer.
My favorite way of looking at this is to listen to people quoting Christ out of context in conservative retribution and rebuke, when the context of the Gospel was Love, Peace, and faith that “people” would hold up their fellow man in service to the “lessor” of these, in charity of spirit
I loved Perlstein's piece and shared it on Facebook. I share his concerns and most of his views. But I also think we forget that there IS an element of anti-semitism in some of the protests, just as some of the pro-Israeli people are not necessarily anti-Palestinian so much as pro-Israel.
It's a little like debates about the coming of the US Civil War (an area where I feel more knowledgeable!). Some thought in terms of politics, some about free labor, some about the moral issue, some about the legal issue, some about regional economics, but slavery was at the center of it all. What Israel is doing in Gaza is wrong, but those objecting to it come from different approaches.
I will say this: At a recent demonstration on behalf of Israel, there were several MAGA hats. Need I say more about Nazism and fascism, and the dubiety of working with certain allies? Then again, I tend to think of Netanyahu as someone who could have gotten along well in 1930s Germany.
Netanyahu's father and other founder-leaders of the fascist-admiring Likud Party had no problem collaborating with Hitler's SS pre-WW2, only being forced to stop by the news of Kristallnacht.
I didn't know that, although (knowing German Jews as well as I do) not that surprising.
About the MAGA hats -- you're probably aware of the affinity right-wing Christians often have for Israel? Trump played to it in moving the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem. This unholy alliance goes back well over a century, well before the Nazis came along, and not just on this side of the Atlantic either.
Rapture baby, Rapture! Ask Mike Johnson, the spewker of the house.
what's funny is that when I hear Jewish folks mention this hideous fact, I ask them if they realize that when this Rapture thing happens, all of us ("us" being Jews) are going straight to hell.
a lot of them haven't read that far...
All but 144,000, who will proclaim Robot Jeebus the "Messiah." But yes, the rest of you folks are destined for "the fiery pit." With "friends" like these, Israel needs no enemies.
I know! Last month I got to see the documentary _'Til Kingdom Come,_ which deals with exactly this. Maya Zinshtein, the director-producer, is an Israeli filmmaker. One of the key informants is an Israeli woman who acts as a sort of intermediary between the Christian Zionists (esp. in a hardscrabble community in Kentucky) and Israel. I kept wondering "WTH is she thinking??" More about it here: https://www.documentary.org/project/til-kingdom-come-0
I think of posers for hire on the right like James O'Keefe and boogaloos, Proud Boys, and Oath Keepers, provocateurs looking to ignite that new civil war they're itching for, and I realize that the idealistic and moralistic young are vulnerable to the predations of such bad guys. They are destructive subversives, and, yes, I believe they sit in the trees waiting to swoop down on anything that has a political meal for them.
But I also believe that some kids need to learn to separate out a national group from its leaders and recognize that leaders with bad intentions are not representative of their people in all their dealings. We can't let Netanyahu make pariahs of the Jews, just as Putin is not Russia, and dog knows Trump was not America when he parked his ample butt and inadequate mind behind the desk in the Oval Office. The kids are living out what they learned in Sunday school, in Temple, and in the Mosques, various versions of the Golden Rule. They do not want to see children roasted, broken, and starved. Does that make them bad?
Quite a few of "the kids" know their history better than many adults. Hamas didn't come out of nowhere. Neither did Israel. Pass it on.
Thank you Judth. I believe in dog also.
I believe in dog like crazy. spelled backwards, not so much.
HA!
Of course these kids are not BAD - just young & no matter on which "side" - swept along by group think in too many cases. Peaceful protest is great - but the peaceful part kind of gets lost way too easily - being convinced to follow along and join in is easy.
For once, there was someone with a camera when this happened:
"The 65-year-old former head of Dartmouth’s Jewish studies program who dared scream "What are you doing?" at cops being taken down with a wrestling move that also left her with an arm wrenched behind her back. Then a second cop arriving to keep her pinned as a third looks on blithely, rifle at the ready. (She was suspended by her university for her trouble.)"
And honestly, sitting here watching tv - I yelled the same thing she did.
The demands that colleges divest themselves of various incomes/research/whatever are kind of ridiculous. But making the effort to meet with the protesters and TALK? Could it be that might be better than putting snipers on building OR throwing senior citizens to the ground?
Honestly, I had little sympathy for the students protesting, but on the other hand, who or where are the supposed adults here? Certainly not law enforcement!
You've put your finger on the problem.
I know I heard of at least one college that had actually met with the kids & made progress - thought it was Dartmouth but looked it up & apparently not - they had a mess there too. I know I didnt dream it - but darned if I can find where it was.
As I said above - my sympathy really didnt land on the students side. But this kind of police over-reaction? Enough already.
Brown University led the way:
https://www.npr.org/2024/05/03/1249036523/student-describes-divestment-negotiations-with-brown-university
Thank you, Jeff - apparently there are several universities who have negotiation with students.
It may not satisfy everyone - but communication is better than screaming!
https://www.npr.org/2024/05/07/1249368151/gaza-college-protest-deal-brown-rutgers?ft=nprml&f=1013
it was Brown...but remember they haven't made any promises yet. who knows if they will?
But there has been or is communication - seems to me thats a smarter way than bringing police into it.
when has law enforcement personnel on a college campus resulted in anything good? I am open to examples, but can't think of any myself.
disasters, on the other hand, seem to be very much the rule.
cops on a campus are out of their depth and have virtually no training for such circumstances. and when you factor in a police force almost infinitely more militarized than it was fifty years ago.
I've been shouting for thirty years that, for whatever reason, the government has wanted to deprive most students of their attention spans, knowledge base and, of course, any ability to think for themselves.
for the last few weeks, I've been reading faculty assessments by college students. I recommend this, but if you do it, prepare to be horrified. teachers are downgraded for not providing power point presentations of EVERYTHING, for giving challenging exams, for requiring actual term papers, for assigning too much reading, for demanding attendance, for giving grades less than A's, for pretty much everything everybody took for granted as being the rules when I was in school. prevailed when I was a student.
so the intelligence of these TV reporters with their ivy league degrees should not be taken for granted. at all.
Why do you think I call them the over-educated, under-intelligent,. otherwise-unemployable trust fund babies of the DC Press Corpse?
I also read that at one of the campuses the students wanted an automatic pass/fail grade OR I guess because of "what they went thru" an automatic PASS!
The education kids are getting in K-12 is so lacking in EDUCATION! One of things that sticks in my craw (!) is the fact that kids arent being taught cursive - the ABILITY to write! I guess they all know how to print so maybe thats what matters?
I know, THAT is a less important issue compared to the lack of actually teaching them how to live in this world, or perhaps their own history.
And yes, the militarization of police forces is frankly absolute stupidity.
I havent read anything lately about the "police campus" mess in Atlanta. Doesnt seem to be a big enough issue to write about for our "journalists". Frankly, destroying a natural area - a park with wildlife that everyone could enjoy - one thats close to an area of minority neighborhood - so that the police can have a training area to practice their "takedowns" of (I guess) anyone who disagrees with the people in power? Just on the face of it - doesnt that appear to be a bad idea?
Thanks, Judith. This is commentary from a local columnist and dad of a recent college graduate.
“Maybe you disagree. But the students were calling for the same divestment tactics Florida’s governor has tried to apply to companies that he believes are too “woke.” Except the students’ target wasn’t companies involved with clean energy but rather dead kids.”
https://www.orlandosentinel.com/2024/05/07/college-protests-media-hysteria-overshadows-reality-commentary/?share=inapm2slrowiteswmoe2
There's a paywall, but I get the general point and agree that there's been too much hysteria. I'm loathe to come down too hard on the young. They can't really help that they're young, now, can they? I regret that my generation and my own kids' generation have left such a mess for my grandkids' generation. We can't rear our young to stand up for what they believe in and then chastise them when they do. On the other hand, I think the kids will figure it out eventually. They just have to learn that violence is for boxing and the battlefield. Not giving up on mankind just yet, but maybe next week.
Ample butt and inadequate mind….poetry!
I wonder how long it will take Israel to live down the stain of Netanyahu's reign and the moral and political hazards his government has placed on Israel, hazards that country must live with for some time - as Germany, Japan, and we, must live down our past sins, striving to do better in the future.
That urge to make and take sides, to paint one group as the good guys and another as the bad guys not matter how mixed the actual situation, to have someone(s) to target and feel okay about hating on - that underlies a lot of the agony over "deciding" who is good as we read about this mess. Maybe we need to go back to Gandhi and start by declaring that no one is a fit target for hatred.
Thank you Tom. Another good one. I could get rip roaring on these issues, but I will refrain. Perlstein lays it down pretty clearly.
Indeed he does. I second it your thanks.
Perlstein has a very poor grasp of American geography!
Can’t find the good guys with an electron microscope, can it be that there aren’t any? Or maybe the good bad battle is within us all. So who gets to protest.
Thank you for this. I've had my fill of mostly male commentators about my age (almost 73) comparing what's going on now to 1968 as if all that happened in 1968 was the "siege of Chicago" and the antiwar protests were mainly about the draft. I especially hate revisionism when it tries to revise events I took part in. The whole thing about "outside agitators" is so, so familiar. Notice how these university administrators love inviting guest speakers and members of the local community onto the campus but hate it when students take the initiative? The alliance with armed law enforcement is new, at least at predominantly white schools. Back in the day, we expected to get tear-gassed if things got a little rowdy, but we didn't expect to have rifles aimed at us.
Kudos to Rick, Bravo and Hurrah. For days now I have been commenting all over Substack that I suspect we are getting sold a bill of goods by the media.
There are never DETAILS. The only report I could find of a Jewish student saying WHAT she was afraid of was shouts of "Free Palestine" which someone has convinced her means "eliminate Israel." Uh, girl child that ain't what it means. How many other threatened students are hearing what isn't actually meant by the shouts. Yes, there are some antisemitic dingbats; they aren't limited to campus, in case anyone hasn't noticed. All that is being reported are allegations and apparent mind reading of the students. And of the motives of the "outside agitators" who could be coaching students on MLKs use of peaceful Civil Disobedience. Not ONE report of what the "agitators" are actually saying. Just assumptions that they must be evil. Evidence, the need for you has long been banished by Fox and the devotees of The Big Lie.
I've also been highly, highly skeptical that the cops have been needed. Why do administrators think they need to be, instead of the successful negotiations other universities have had that were followed by a literal folding up of tents. I think the key word here is Elise Stefanik. Nothing like a threat to lose all your funding to create an urgent need to act tough even if it isn't needed.
Another good analysis is found here: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2024/05/israel-gaza-war-protest-movement/678303/ It does document some of the more putrid shouts. But I keep thinking: If "Free Palestine" sends some student shivering in fear away from classes--what is the emotion that is aroused by being faced by cops in riot gear when all you've personally done is sit on a lawn and decry the killing of children.
The Breaking News just a couple of hours ago is that Biden has said we are NOT going to supply typical offensive weapons if any more action is taken in Rafah. I found his speech yesterday a bit misleading, though it WAS a Holocaust Day event. But I applaud this action and hope he sticks with it--or even more, doesn't have to because Bibi finally caves.
I still have to ask, how are
these demonstrations helping
the "people" of Gaza, or
Israel, for that matter? Did
the violent demonstrations
over the Vietnam War help
the "people" of Vietnam?
They tore this country apart
and like the Civil War, set
brothers and friends against
each other.
Demeaning anyone because
of their race or religion is not
right and has led to more
damn wars throughout
history than anything else.
That's all I have to say.
Democracy is not a spectator sport. The students are protesting in the one way that Gandhi and Martin Luther King practiced, and doing it in the best venue to get results. Their protest is not meant to provide sanctuary or aid to the people of Gaza, it's meant to change the position of our government: supporting the Netanyahu blitzkrieg in Gaza.
and, to some degree, I'd say they've been successful, at least to a degree. without the demonstrations, would Biden have considered cutting off (or at least LIMITING) military support of Israel? I doubt it.
that was me being optimistic.
Bravo Jeff!
Breaking news:
Biden Warns Israel US Will Halt Some Arms Shipments If Rafah Offensive Goes Ahead
...
some?
from Sara Wexler, a jewish doctoral student at Columbia:
"We are told that we need a state that is based on ethnicity in the 21st century and that’s the only way Jewish people can be safe. But it is really for Britain and America and other imperialist states to have a presence in the Middle East. I’ve no idea why people still believe this narrative. It makes no sense to have a place for Jewish people that requires other people to suffer and die.”
I'd say she has a point. war sucks. but it's still a point unsullied by any deep knowledge of this immensely complicated historical issue.
it is the current horrifying Israeli leadership that seems to require "other people to suffer and die." there is nothing about the existence of Israel AS SUCH that demands anybody be killed.
and let's remember that the day of the Hamas atrocities, while rape and murder was still going on, a few statements from groups in some of the most "elite" universities in the country were already saying that those atrocities were entirely Israel's fault.
at very least, a really bad look. fuck them where they breathe.
The overwhelming majority of demonstrations against the Vietnam War were not violent. I know this because I participated in many of them, often as a marshal/peacekeeper. They didn't "tear this country apart," but they did show where some serious fissures were. Same goes for the civil rights movement, and the women's movement, and even the urban riots of the mid/late 1960s. (As Phil Ochs sang about the riots, "So wrong, so wrong, but we've been down so long / And we had to make somebody listen.")
Yes, maybe ask these kids exactly how they think they are helping the women and children in Gaza by protesting against their colleges. As Joan said - NO ONE should be a target for hatred. Thats what these "demonstrations" seem to end up being - hatred from one group for another. Lack of communication - dont we have more than enough of that already?
How are they helping? Perhaps, we’ll never know since bibi’s goal is to annihilate all Gazans! Personally, the initial protests screamed enough with the slaughter of innocent Palistians!
All this hand-wringing reminds me of what Marx - Groucho, not Karl - said, "Who you gonna believe, me or your own lying eyes?" As Pearlstein points out, everyone is lying here, but the propensity for self-loathing amongst Jews themselves is a bit redundant. After October 7, the majority of the military action has been advanced by Bibi and his IDF. The way this ends is if someone in the war cabinet walks out and forces Netanyahu to accept a ceasefire. We'll see.
Planned obsolescence of the arms industry is war.
well shit...if this ain't a bummer...
it's certainly very well said, and I'm very much a Perlstein fan, so I take this all very seriously.
and I know perfectly well that anything I see on TV news is hardly going to be reliable. to quote Tom a few days back..."if it bleeds, it leads."
since I'm not in the most mobile shape of my life (that is to say, if I suddenly had to move quickly in a large-ish group, I could go down like a bowling pin), I can't go from campus to campus to find out what's REALLY going on. I have a few friends who have access to a few campuses, but on every campus, shit can turn ugly very quickly. THEY tell me that things tend to be ok, until the cops show up. big fucking surprise.
on the other hand, the phrase "outside agitators" is one that immediately makes me suspicious.
and, in general, the idea that it's the job of college to makes students feel "safe" at all times is like some kind of horrible joke. obviously, physical safety of students is essential, but most of the time (I suspect), they're talking about "emotional safety," which is....WHAT?? I'm inclined to answer "bullshit" or, more politely, "who the fuck sez?"
I'll have to read this another day. It threw me when I read that it's 2000 miles from Chicago to Boston, and I worried that Perlstein might be getting other stuff equally wrong. It's actually slightly less than 1,000 miles between Boston to Chicago by road! I suppose it's possible that Perlstein has never driven it--something that I first did at 17, but he could have at least looked at a US map, or a globe.
That's called a typo that didn't get checked against deadline. Writers have them all the time. There's even a rule about it The Tillman (for my friend Barrett Tillman) Rule: "no matter how many times a manuscript is copyedited by different people, the worst typo will only be discovered the week of release."
I actually see a lot of typos in your columns, but they mostly don't interfere with understanding what you're saying.
According the web, Chicago to Boston is 984 miles. Please keep your facts straight
And that is slightly less than 1000 miles.
Forgive me for being on the spectrum. If there are typos, spelling mistakes, or other such in published books I'm reading, they jump out at me.
me too, and I consider myself neurodiverse as well and always have. my shtick is to NEVER let a typo or obvious grammatical error (assuming I can find them) into even my shortest post. nobody's perfect in these matters, but I feel compelled to self-police, often to a fault.
but it's human nature to fuck up, so....
Same with me.
As I read the article in context, I skipped right over the typos et al. Typically for me, minor editing errors that have little to do with the actual message are absorbed by the overall
Someone once said, “Follow the Money”. I thought it was good advice
But, carry on.
Amen, “Aha, I found a mistake, the entire content is now under extreme suspicion “
Trust me, there's always a reviewer at Amazon who will do just that.
the Amazon "reviewers" I HATE are those dumb bastards who'' give a book a one-star rating because the book arrived late, or wasn't in the shape advertised. it drags down the average rating for the book and tells absolutely nothing of any value for everybody. I love going after those schmucks...
Please go over to the Thomas McKelvey Cleaver page at Amazon and feel free to roam freely through the reviews, and whack the morons. I'll even give you a signed copy of your choice of the books on offer.
My favorite way of looking at this is to listen to people quoting Christ out of context in conservative retribution and rebuke, when the context of the Gospel was Love, Peace, and faith that “people” would hold up their fellow man in service to the “lessor” of these, in charity of spirit
Quite the Liberal Socialist