I have a postscript question...if Genesis is historical fact, which fucking creation is the real one...there are two of them in Genesis and they're DIFFERENT.
I have a postscript question...if Genesis is historical fact, which fucking creation is the real one...there are two of them in Genesis and they're DIFFERENT.
I hate to admit how old I was when the bull Schitt became too heavy to bear. God gave us all a brain, too many waste theirs. As Mark Twain said “The easy confidence with which I know another man’s religion is folly, teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” Ain’t that the truth.
David, Genesis is not meant to be historical or scientific. It is story (ies), out of an oral tradition--(which may explain the two versions as often happens when stories are shared orally and then scribes write them down)...the way people use myth and symbol to explain and find meaning in their world and being. If you want to read something fascinating (in your Ambien Moment) about why we humans do that, read the classic by Joseph Campbell, The Hero With a Thousand Faces. He traces the amazing connections we earthlings have in our core stories. George Lucas called Campbell his "hero".
The Hebrews adopted the Chaldean creation myth as "Genesis" during the Babylonian Captivity. Before that, the religion was entirely oral, and the priests were afraid it would be lost if their captivity lasted long enough, and so they wrote things down and cadged as much as they could (they were working fast) to get things going. Such is the "infallible word of god."
Literalism and lack of context are the problem. Jimmy Carter broke from his Baptist tradition over the inerrancy issue and a certain literal take on Scripture.
The guys ( and they were guys) who decided the Scriptural Canon had their own times and rational. Really good biblical scholarship, aided by archeology, sociology geography, historical criticism & literary criticism, use of language and modes of communication only came into its own in the late 19th and 20th centuries. Feminist critique has been added in this century.
We educated and thinking Christians have the responsibility to understand this Book in the light of new knowledge. The best faith is the faith that seeks understanding: the most dangerous is the blind , literal non-contextual use of it to beat people over the head, to control others, to weaponize and polarize.
I have a genuine loathing for Joseph Campbell. I liked him early in college, but when I discovered Erich Neumann, Campbell was unnecessary. check out "The Origins and History of Consciousness."
and eventually, Brendan Gill outed him as a Jew hater very convincingly (they had been friends).
I do KNOW all this stuff...I was sorta skazing Johnson and HIS cohort...this is what I would have asked HIM to his face because he has decided to limit what intelligence with which he MIGHT have been born.
I was raised by very Jewish agnostics (although I think my dad was a closet atheist) and consider myself a ridiculously New York City Atheist Jew. to be a NYCAJ growing up in NYC in the fifties was to be a Lord of the Universe.
I didn't experience actual antisemitism until I was working as a private vehicle chauffeur to earn pocket money just out of rehab. the offender was David Niven's daughter-in-law and I'd tell the silly little story if my fingers and mechanical keyboard weren't having a major quarrel this evening.
Sorry David. Did not mean to bring up bad memories and did not know about the anti- Semite Campbell!!!!
I do not always know when people are serious so I answer in good faith. As a person of faith I sometimes want to respond that we are not all evangelical crazies or blindly obedient to priests and Popes. Fully aware of the Sins of the Fathers but also fully aware of the goodness of true Christians, especially the women in my church. It is hard to get tarred with the sometimes broad brushes here.
Sounds as if you’ve had an interesting life. Glad you are here. Sorry again for tapping into the loathing gene!!!!
Yeah I was a big fan of Campbell back in high school along with a classmate or two; very fascinating discussions of the similarities in different culture. I jettisoned him when I learned about his antisemitism.
Almost all of the various creation stories from cultures around the world share eerily similar elements. Carl Sagan's book "Contact" did a nice job of speaking to this subject and delineating the fine lines and blurred lines between scientists and theologians who use critical thought processes. Great book; the movie was okay, but the book was great.
Wow you all are well read or have memories not as degraded over the years as I sit here after Quad Tendon Tear surgery today. I did some time in a Quaker School and a bunch of time in the USMC. I now find my religion hanging out in the woods, talking to Sammy my Cat. No formal religion for this former Episcopal Acolyte.
David, people forget the truth about the Bible - the ancient Hebrews wrote the Book of Genesis with its creation stories because Bronze Age shepherds and peasants had a very poor grasp of quantum physics.....
Yeah, whole lotta cribbing going on back then - and looking at the God stories in the OT, you can see the evolution (oh, did I just say "evolution"?) of God from Super-Zeus wrestling with Jacob to a more authoritative supreme being - and all that sex and violence.....worse than Mickey Spillane.
I have a postscript question...if Genesis is historical fact, which fucking creation is the real one...there are two of them in Genesis and they're DIFFERENT.
I hate to admit how old I was when the bull Schitt became too heavy to bear. God gave us all a brain, too many waste theirs. As Mark Twain said “The easy confidence with which I know another man’s religion is folly, teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” Ain’t that the truth.
Ol' Sam was, in many ways, full of wisdom (and cynicism).
Indeed, he could smell snake oil from across the country
he was a very great man.
Postscript Response:
David, Genesis is not meant to be historical or scientific. It is story (ies), out of an oral tradition--(which may explain the two versions as often happens when stories are shared orally and then scribes write them down)...the way people use myth and symbol to explain and find meaning in their world and being. If you want to read something fascinating (in your Ambien Moment) about why we humans do that, read the classic by Joseph Campbell, The Hero With a Thousand Faces. He traces the amazing connections we earthlings have in our core stories. George Lucas called Campbell his "hero".
The Hebrews adopted the Chaldean creation myth as "Genesis" during the Babylonian Captivity. Before that, the religion was entirely oral, and the priests were afraid it would be lost if their captivity lasted long enough, and so they wrote things down and cadged as much as they could (they were working fast) to get things going. Such is the "infallible word of god."
Literalism and lack of context are the problem. Jimmy Carter broke from his Baptist tradition over the inerrancy issue and a certain literal take on Scripture.
The guys ( and they were guys) who decided the Scriptural Canon had their own times and rational. Really good biblical scholarship, aided by archeology, sociology geography, historical criticism & literary criticism, use of language and modes of communication only came into its own in the late 19th and 20th centuries. Feminist critique has been added in this century.
We educated and thinking Christians have the responsibility to understand this Book in the light of new knowledge. The best faith is the faith that seeks understanding: the most dangerous is the blind , literal non-contextual use of it to beat people over the head, to control others, to weaponize and polarize.
I have a genuine loathing for Joseph Campbell. I liked him early in college, but when I discovered Erich Neumann, Campbell was unnecessary. check out "The Origins and History of Consciousness."
and eventually, Brendan Gill outed him as a Jew hater very convincingly (they had been friends).
I do KNOW all this stuff...I was sorta skazing Johnson and HIS cohort...this is what I would have asked HIM to his face because he has decided to limit what intelligence with which he MIGHT have been born.
I was raised by very Jewish agnostics (although I think my dad was a closet atheist) and consider myself a ridiculously New York City Atheist Jew. to be a NYCAJ growing up in NYC in the fifties was to be a Lord of the Universe.
I didn't experience actual antisemitism until I was working as a private vehicle chauffeur to earn pocket money just out of rehab. the offender was David Niven's daughter-in-law and I'd tell the silly little story if my fingers and mechanical keyboard weren't having a major quarrel this evening.
mebbe laytuh.
Sorry David. Did not mean to bring up bad memories and did not know about the anti- Semite Campbell!!!!
I do not always know when people are serious so I answer in good faith. As a person of faith I sometimes want to respond that we are not all evangelical crazies or blindly obedient to priests and Popes. Fully aware of the Sins of the Fathers but also fully aware of the goodness of true Christians, especially the women in my church. It is hard to get tarred with the sometimes broad brushes here.
Sounds as if you’ve had an interesting life. Glad you are here. Sorry again for tapping into the loathing gene!!!!
Yeah I was a big fan of Campbell back in high school along with a classmate or two; very fascinating discussions of the similarities in different culture. I jettisoned him when I learned about his antisemitism.
Almost all of the various creation stories from cultures around the world share eerily similar elements. Carl Sagan's book "Contact" did a nice job of speaking to this subject and delineating the fine lines and blurred lines between scientists and theologians who use critical thought processes. Great book; the movie was okay, but the book was great.
Wow you all are well read or have memories not as degraded over the years as I sit here after Quad Tendon Tear surgery today. I did some time in a Quaker School and a bunch of time in the USMC. I now find my religion hanging out in the woods, talking to Sammy my Cat. No formal religion for this former Episcopal Acolyte.
Neither one
David, people forget the truth about the Bible - the ancient Hebrews wrote the Book of Genesis with its creation stories because Bronze Age shepherds and peasants had a very poor grasp of quantum physics.....
Actually, they just cribbed the Chaldean creation myth during the Babylonian Captivity.
Yeah, whole lotta cribbing going on back then - and looking at the God stories in the OT, you can see the evolution (oh, did I just say "evolution"?) of God from Super-Zeus wrestling with Jacob to a more authoritative supreme being - and all that sex and violence.....worse than Mickey Spillane.
The fact is only that they were written. That's all.