102 Comments

The only surprise is that this took so long. I am pretty sure this guy is starting a trend. People are sick of the greed and hypocrisy. Trumpstain's second con will only accelerate the "nothing to lose" crowd into action.

Fuck around, find out.

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Most voted for chump, I would venture a guess

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😢

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I fully understand the frustration of people on for profit based health insurance. But killing people is not the answer. I am fortunate to have Kaiser Permanente since 1965. I had a 9 hour surgery in 1983 and had anesthesia all the way. We definitely need to permanently fix the health care system in the United States,l Only a licensed registered physician should determine what tests and procedures a patient needs, perhaps some doctors are a little lax, but that can be handled individually with a little pressure on the State medical boards. More than anything we need to get the damned insurance industry OUT of healthcare. Expand Medicare and Medicaid if nothing else works.

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When I was caregiving Jurate - who had Kaiser - every damn time I dealt with those people, I walked out saying "Best private health care in America? God save us. Thank goodness for the VA!!"

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You are fortunate to have VA. It is also on the 2025 chopping block - no surprise there from someone who calls the military vets and dead, 'suckers and losers'. Who refused to go to the cemetery on Memorial Day because the rain might muss up his hair,

A lot of people don't like Kaiser, I've been lucky to have doctors I like and respect. I guess I also have the advantage of speaking the same language. I'm not too happy with the doctor I have now and if I don't hear from him by tomorrow I'll ask for a new doctor. But that's a first for me in almost 60 years.

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Kaiser gets worse every year. I live in WA. There really are no better alternatives, but it's bad.

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What about "Group Health" on Capitol Hill in Seattle: Group Heath was a imported to the state from the cooperative heritage of Northern states.

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Group Health was great. It was cheap, same day appointments, easy to see specialists and doctors were paid decently, but not exorbitantly. They were bought by Kaiser in an overwhelming vote by members of the co-op.

It was the gold standard of HMOs.

Oh well.

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I agree, Hannah, Kaiser Service has gone down hill in recent years. In Sacramento County where I live it's still better than the alternatives and cheaper too.

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Thank you immensely Hannah; that news closes that last paragraph in a chapter in my life.

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you mean GHI? that's been my plan from the very beginning, and they're pretty reliable. whenever I've had to ask the UFT Health Department to reconsider paying for a prescribed medication, they've been good about it. but you still keep hearing bad stories...

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I was speaking of Group Health Cooperative, in the Seattle area. Not GHI.

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If MAGA cuts the VA or any benefits, there will be hell to pay. It will be a bloodbath.

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No offense intended, Tom, but I AGREE!!!

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We had Kaiser Permanente during our years in Colorado. Discovered on moving to Florida that KP isn’t here so I’ve had to use community care, My wife, the vet, gets her care at the VA since ~2006.

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I’ve had Kaiser Permanente and since age 65 have had their senior advantage plan. I have never been denied a doctor appointment, tests or medication and thank KP for keeping me alive despite numerous serious health issues.

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And Kaiser Permanent started in Richmond CA shipyards where old Henry Kaiser "Find a Need & Fill It" provided healthcare coverage to workers as they rapidly built 'Liberty Ships" 1 every 5 or 6 days.

The Kaiser Heath Foundation (KFH) produces well respected medical policy data based on massive cohort research data.

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Henry J was pretty much what one would want in a CEO. But the escort carriers (CVE) he built were crap. The steel had such a high sulfur content that when they got hit, they caught fire, and the engines they had were like nothing anyone ever saw before, and liable to explode if not maintained. Made cheap. Crews said CVE stood for Combustible, Vulnerable, and Expendable.

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Just what soldiers under fire needed. Lordy

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Thank you TC, I knew aluminum could burn from the Falklands war, but not the CVE's.

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Henry J. was no fool. A healthy happy work force is predictable and productive. Absolutely necessaty for profitability. Remember Kaiser Cement? Those bright pink double bottom dumps and transit mixers toodling down the highways and neighborhoods. His wife loved pink and asked him to paint them that way. He loved his wife, and of course he did. The red pigment was a bit more expensive than other colors, but a happy home was worth it.

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Kaiser Foundation has nothing to do with KP.

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Fact Check: TRUE. KFF, "The independent source for health policy research". See, www.kff.org.

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Yes, Kaiser routinely botch surgeries and sends the dying patient to other facilities to keep the number of death lower. The people I know who died, or became brain dead due to horrible care they got in Kaiser, is huge. Kaiser is great as long as you do not get sick. I had a raincoat I bought in Srilanka that was really good looking until it rained.

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They didn't exactly kill Jurate, but when their surgical restrictions during covid meant they couldn't put a replacement replacement hip in in time (with Parkinson's, "use it or lose it" is the rule) they then removed the broken hip, leaving her helplessly bedridden for the remainder of her days. The good news was the terminal care people they fobbed her off on were better than they were at giving good care, so those final two years weren't as bad as they could have been. But Kaiser can go to hell for all I care.

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"Only a licensed registered physician should determine what tests and procedures a patient needs." There is an ENORMOUS problem with this: the health insurance industry HIRES doctors, and put them in offices to make these decisions -- which often are exactly the opposite of what the TREATING PHYSICIAN knows to be appropriate. These docs-for-hire are paid proportional to the number of expenses that they refuse to pay. How do I know this? Because I once had a patient (I'm a psychiatrist) who left his less-than-lucrative practice and took an office job which paid double -- and did precisely that for his job. (This guy had sociopathic traits.)

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You would know, Kathy.

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You're right: killing people is not the answer, which is why we should demand universal healthcare. In the meantime, I am sympathetic to those who have lost loved ones, and I can understand the motivation of vengeance. I would not testify against the UHC killer.

The United States government kills people every day. State governments kill people every day. Corporations kill people every day. We, as a society, can do better.

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We are in total agreement here, Penfist, on all your points

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"You're right: killing people is not the answer, which is why we should demand universal healthcare." Outstanding comment.

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Steve Earle addressed this: second verse

https://youtu.be/qucvehojtJM?si=p3n64585GjqX4BJC

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Love Steve Earle.

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DAMN, of course. Thank you for the reminder.

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Go back to the post world war two period where the song got started and stop Congress from giving the insurance industry an anti trust exemption no other industry gets. Unwind it, or do whatever is necessary to finally burn it down. I really believe that will fix a lot of our healthcare problems in this country.

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If we survive next 4 years...

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Re comment on the VA system, the VA is squarely in the cross hairs of Musk and Vivek re their little game of DOGEball.

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Oh yeah, but I have the feeling Trump won't be listening to The Bimbo Boys, and for sure the House won't be.

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Sure hope you’re right!

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Guess we will see Musk fading into the once-was-a-friend-of-trump. Suspect April. That's all $250 million getaway you in Donnie attention. Musk will have got his payback from trump in time in the headlines and chance to play biggly reformer with the understanding of any other prebubesent 13 year old on how to do stuff on the cheap.

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Who will be listening to Wreck be listening to on health care? JFKJr? Fresh on his murderous vaccine policy in American Samoa? They guy has blood on his hands.

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They all drip blood and love it

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They be “overly self important”

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I think all of us have personally had, or know people who have had, an awful experience with the American healthcare (denial) system. And the murder victim is starting to look like less than a boy scout. However, I just can’t get with the murder program. No way to know where it stops, thinking practically, and it strikes me as immoral (just haven’t yet been able to get the God delusion out of my head).

It seems to me the on-line joy at this murder is further evidence of the coarsening of society since the advent of Trump. His baleful example encourages the worst in people.

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Totally right. And the fact there are so many people who look with favor on the event is evidence of corporate America to do what they claim they will do - deliver a product people want in a way they want it at a price they can pay. Corporate America is a failure, complete and total.

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Thanks to Ronnie and the Weaponization of greed and ruthless power

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The murder is also an inevitable mirroring of the decades of criminal leadership by Trump and his mob. Policing and justice in any society is always largely a matter of a suspension of disbelief. Where the majority see justice being done and believe their ruling class are in charge because they are good or intelligent individuals. With the recent political triumph of The Heritage Foundation Christo fascists and Trump’s treacherous broligarchy no thinking person in the US can believe that anymore. How much this heinous open corruption in high places trickles down to successfully corrode societal law and order norms statewide will depend upon local people and how far they are willing to move out of their own comfort zone to uphold decency, law and order in their own backyards.

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Absolutely correct GarySanDiego. The NYPD already has a full face phot of the Perp from his stay in a hostel the night before. The killer left a trail of genetic evidence on his exit route to Central Park along with M1 direct evidence of criminal intent as well as mens rea evidence inscribed on the shell casings & live unspent ammo.

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National Health Care would (1) abolish health insurance companies, and (2) eliminate malpractice attorneys. In its place, a board of physicians in the same field as the doctor being sued (but none who know that doctor) would replace them. This system would save 30+% in medical costs. (3) Also, NHC would be able to put tremendous pressure on big Pharma to reduce their prices, thus saving another 5-10% in costs for American citizens. That fact that this wasn't done long, long, long ago is only because of the number of politicians OWNED by the three groups listed above.

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We would also save money on healthcare infrastructure. Those million dollar MRIs are marked up for the US market. All machines and equipment cost a lot here because our elected officials are purchased by the healthcare lobby. Even the people who sell new surgical equipment are payed enormous sums and will often perform surgery. They are not doctors, they are salespeople. I knew one who made millions. We pay for that crap.

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You are on a roll Hannah Olufs.

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This subject is a gut punch for me.

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Both Dems and Republicans!

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The coming administration is going to try to push those with straight Medicare or private insurance into corporate managed plans. When will people realize nothing is free and what they give up is not worth a free dental cleaning.

Medicare for all isn’t coming anytime soon. What a sad mess. I remember when I paid outrageous premiums for my kids because of pre existing ear infections!

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Genetic "pre-existing conditions" exist when when you come out of the womb. BRACA 1 or BRACA 2 risk for breast cancer is just 1 of many genetic risk examples. Hey, BRACA mutations frisk for pancreatic cancer genetic risk are only about 12%.

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Fast forward backwards to 1993. Hillary had a plan for healthcare. Think how different things would be today if we had listened to her then, and again years later (but her emails!). It is only going to get worse until they all are removed. It's up to us to chose how.

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Murder is not the answer. But, US insurance has become a scam with CEOs making obscene income packages. The entire system drives up medical costs while degrading medical care. I pay a high premium to have Medicare plus a suppliment. Private supplemental policies are required to cover anything Medicare covers. It’s given me great coverage. Turns out the government does a better job covering patients than private insurance does.

And I agree Tom, the VA provides great health care. My father, husband and several friends have received excellent care. Tragically Trump has these benefits in his sights.

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Some context by Jeremy, Victor & Christopher of the Minnesota Star Tribune a state, MN, where theparent of UnitedHealthcare has 400,000 employees & is in the top 5 of Fortune 500 companies.

Most of UnitedHealthcare care policies are private contracts, workforce Plans & yes even 20 million in Medicare (Parts A&B)& Medicaid. We are talking more than 50 Million policyholders.

In over 30 years as a CA attorney I provided pro bono work on medical billing to a wide variety of patients in addition to trial work enforcing good faith& fair dealing CA law against liability insurance carriers.

I met Senator Bernie Sanders at a coffee shop in the Oakland Hills they day after his speech in SF pledging "Medicare for All". Medicare coverage has its own limits & hassles but, I think Suzette & Bernie are on the right track. Take the profit motive out of healing.

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Profit motive? In a country that monetizes absolutely everything, including air and water? I'm still trying to figure out a way to charge people for their house dust because I know someday sombody will.

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The VA is also under attack if bone spurs and his acolytes get their way. Someone much smarter than I am once observed that if one billionaire got eliminated, a message might be sent. Another said that the assassin has become America's Robin Hood. Given how the events of the day played out in Times Square, I am even less convinced about said "blood" on said ear which miraculously grew back almost overnight. I am younger than the so-called "victim" and much healthier. I am living proof that injuries don't heal themselves overnight, with or without maxi pads.

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Some curious journalist should have dug deep on that ridiculous photo op

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Even before reading this excellent post by Tom, I told my husband, even before my first sip of coffee (we are in Rome) that this guy started something. Perhaps the very first step of American revolution against all the scumbags oligarchs and their minions. My ultimate pacifist husband sais, "Hope they never find the guy." Sonewhere I read someone's comment, "FBI narrowed down the suspects to 29 million Americans."

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About right.

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I am sad that so many are gleeful about this man’s assassination. Whats next? Making a Kyle Rittenhouse hero out of the shooter when he is apprehended?

Best healthcare is Medicare with a supplement - I have had millions of dollars in surgeries and hospital stays and therapy! I have not paid a cent out of pocket other than deductibles. I am fortunate. Most are forced or mistakenly enrolled in Advantage Plans and don’t realize this is managed care. This executive was in charge of these plans.

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Judith, you’re right. I’m a type 1 diabetic with an insulin pump and a continuous glucose monitor. I have Original Medicare and a supplement, and I pay the Part B deductible, which includes the insulin, and not much more over the course of the year. It’s a lifesaver for me. Without it, I’d be bankrupt; this stuff ain’t cheap. Either that, or I’d be back on multiple daily injections and finger sticks, and in worse health.

My younger son voted for Trump 3 times. He and I got into a terrible argument recently about it. I asked him what he thought I’d be able to do if Medicare goes away. He said, “Don’t worry Mom, I’ll take care of you.” He and his wife are coming out of personal bankruptcy. I bit my tongue and didn’t say, “You can’t afford to take care of me!” He believed every lie about the economy that he heard. I couldn’t convince him otherwise.

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That's really sad. I am so sorry. It's difficult when it's family.

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Thank you, Hannah.

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That is sad. I am sorry! I would not be happy if my children were MAGA!

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Ah, but Trump’s gang of goons is out to gut the VA as part of its “austerity “ measures. This will hurt you and me but leave the likes of Trump, Musk, and Mr. V untouched. Maybe we should start referring to them all as the Untouchables.There will eventually be hell to pay but thanks to young men and 54 percent of white women, we have Trump 2. Lay this directly at the feet of the contemptible, self-aggrandizing Republicans and their phony corporate Christians.

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Give ‘em hell Susan! 👏

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Why don’t people get it, that they just voted for more of the same. At least a passel did…

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My instincts tell me the great likelihood is that United Healthcare’s CEO’s murder was an ‘eye for an eye’ retribution killing. When I first went on Medicare I was guided by the insurance broker to the United PPO plan. It was horrible and I quickly came to the conclusion that their primary doctors were rewarded to deny need in order to control United’s costs. Thank goodness with Medicare you have the freedom to change providers each year. Aetna does a much better job in actually allowing the patient to receive needed care and medications.

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