I wish the whole series had been written in a way young people might have wanted to watch it, and I don’t mean by making it a cartoon, dumbing it down, or anything like that. People younger than those of us who are of a slightly (ahem) advanced age know much of what our parents generation went through by now, and why it was significant. We can also see the parallels with today. So many people don’t, though, and they should.
you're entirely right. but I also need to say that I've been reading student evaluations of college faculty members and have reached the unavoidable conclusion that doing ANYTHING "in a way young people might have wanted to watch it" is not a great idea. one notices certain "trends" about which one (at least THIS "one") is very liable to feel very depressed...
It is sad this series did not gel the way it should have. Of course, the early war situation, in which crews were lost so quickly that some were literally unknown to anyone else in the unit, did not allow the training and character development segments as in BoB, did not help. I felt that much of the history was glossed over to concentrate on the few characters they did feature. The refusal of the unit production manager to scrape up the money to add chin turrets for the B-17Gs is emblematic of the secondary place the 8th AF history seems to have had. ANY series dealing with the 8th AF bomber war was going to have to concentrate on a few key actions that changed the history of the organization. They ignored the second Schweinfurt raid, which was the mission that proved that unescorted daylight bombing was not sustainable. There was no discussion of the daylight bombing doctrine that led the 8th brass to refuse drop tanks for the escorting fighters for 1942 and 1943, or the leadership changes in 1944 that corrected the errors of the earlier war period. I know Spielberg has a thing for the P-51 Mustang, but no real mention of the P-47 (I did see some apparent P-47s in an episode, unidentified). There was some fine work by the art and prop departments in recreating Thorpe Abbotts, but most of it appeared for only seconds. There wasn't a lot of the normal planning activity you'd expect, so much was unexplained. Uniforms appeared to be quite good based on what I've seen on the web. At least it inspired me to buy a repro A-2 leather jacket to replace an old jacket that gave out. Frankly, you'll get a lot more history from good old war movies, specifically "Twelve O'Clock High" and "Command Decision", even though neither has a much air-to-air action. A lost opportunity.....
Then there is the CGI..... When the CGI worked (done by one of the better of the 10 VFX houses they used for the effects), they were effective, to me in the mass flight scenes with the contrails - a lot of that looked OK to me. That said, most of the combat sequences sucked. Video game scenes that were nothing like what the 8th AF actually faced, aligned with such poorly done B-17 damage scenes that I suspect no one at any of the VFX houses had ever flown in an airplane or looked at much real WW2 combat footage. And so much of it was sloppy - B-17 propellers turning the wrong way, control surfaces misaligned.....what were they thinking? Where was the "script girl".....? The writing was not my style, but as I posted elsewhere, my $300 million was tied up in pork bellies, so Apple got the shot at this series..... It could have been so much better. The last couple of episodes were obviously rushed, but I did like the last four minutes - the departure of the 100th BG's B-17s from Thorpe Abbotts back to the US. It was a poignant moment and I thought the CGI was pretty good, but again in the last sequence, when Cleven's and Egan's B-17 turned onto the runway, the elevators were misaligned..... Sigh.
That’s why I skipped the series entirely, read the book and compared it to Hastings’ “Bomber Command” and other books I’d read over the years for context.
We didn’t have the capability to hit or internal recognition in 1943 of what targets would be most effective in undercutting the German effort - POL - regular and synthetic.
Ataacking targets such as aircraft manufacturing, transportation, ball bearings and U-boat construction all put stress on the German war effort, but oil/fuel/lubricants were the key.
The British inability to jerk a knot in Harris’ ass complicated the USAAF’s ability to conduct a marginally ‘coherent’ targeting policy, and we spent a solid two years realizing what a compromised procurement and planning policy - hobbled by institutional Douhetism among Arnold’s own strategic bombing disciples - we had up to 1943.
Even LeMay’s relative ‘pragmatism’ in 1943 and 44 turned him into Harris over Japan in 1944 and 45.
If anyone who reads “Masters if the Air” gets through the gloom and doom, they’re greeted by more in the years after WW II - ‘strategic’ bombing in Korea and Vietnam up through the Linebacker and Christmas bombings.
Hey Tom, apropos of my comments on MOTA's CGI, here is a short Youtube video showing a mid-air disintegration and crash of an RC He 111H model. Note how the pieces behave as they fall to the ground, especially in he final slow-motion replay..... They twist and tumble and swirl, as you'd expect of aircraft parts in free air, rather than the sedate straight drifting seen in the MOTA CGI scenes.....
Thanks TC, I learned much about Military research & publication. I am currently working on the crude radar technology available on the Northwest end of Oahu circa 12/1/41 through the bombing of Pearl Harbor. I am aware of the historical data available inside the USS Arizona Memorial site.
"At Dawn We Slept" is considered the (current) Definitive Account of Pearl Harbor.
Goggle the name of the radar set (SCR- _ _ _) and follow up on the responses. Youll be amazed at the PDFs you can run across of previously-secret government reports.
The 1944 Congressional Report on Pearl Harbor is an interesting read.
PS - once you get going on this, respond to one of the email posts (click the "respond" arrow at the bottom, and put us in touch. I'll be happy to give the work a look as you proceed.
It was cartoonish. The guy playing Buck Cleven (Austin Butler) looked like a Ken doll, that the camera repeatedly framed as a stolid, smoldering sex object. . . With not much to say. . .
The kid who played Col. Crosby goes on to play John Wilkes Booth in "Manhunt," streaming on Apple. He didn't seem especially effective as Crosby either.
I wish the whole series had been written in a way young people might have wanted to watch it, and I don’t mean by making it a cartoon, dumbing it down, or anything like that. People younger than those of us who are of a slightly (ahem) advanced age know much of what our parents generation went through by now, and why it was significant. We can also see the parallels with today. So many people don’t, though, and they should.
you're entirely right. but I also need to say that I've been reading student evaluations of college faculty members and have reached the unavoidable conclusion that doing ANYTHING "in a way young people might have wanted to watch it" is not a great idea. one notices certain "trends" about which one (at least THIS "one") is very liable to feel very depressed...
It is sad this series did not gel the way it should have. Of course, the early war situation, in which crews were lost so quickly that some were literally unknown to anyone else in the unit, did not allow the training and character development segments as in BoB, did not help. I felt that much of the history was glossed over to concentrate on the few characters they did feature. The refusal of the unit production manager to scrape up the money to add chin turrets for the B-17Gs is emblematic of the secondary place the 8th AF history seems to have had. ANY series dealing with the 8th AF bomber war was going to have to concentrate on a few key actions that changed the history of the organization. They ignored the second Schweinfurt raid, which was the mission that proved that unescorted daylight bombing was not sustainable. There was no discussion of the daylight bombing doctrine that led the 8th brass to refuse drop tanks for the escorting fighters for 1942 and 1943, or the leadership changes in 1944 that corrected the errors of the earlier war period. I know Spielberg has a thing for the P-51 Mustang, but no real mention of the P-47 (I did see some apparent P-47s in an episode, unidentified). There was some fine work by the art and prop departments in recreating Thorpe Abbotts, but most of it appeared for only seconds. There wasn't a lot of the normal planning activity you'd expect, so much was unexplained. Uniforms appeared to be quite good based on what I've seen on the web. At least it inspired me to buy a repro A-2 leather jacket to replace an old jacket that gave out. Frankly, you'll get a lot more history from good old war movies, specifically "Twelve O'Clock High" and "Command Decision", even though neither has a much air-to-air action. A lost opportunity.....
Then there is the CGI..... When the CGI worked (done by one of the better of the 10 VFX houses they used for the effects), they were effective, to me in the mass flight scenes with the contrails - a lot of that looked OK to me. That said, most of the combat sequences sucked. Video game scenes that were nothing like what the 8th AF actually faced, aligned with such poorly done B-17 damage scenes that I suspect no one at any of the VFX houses had ever flown in an airplane or looked at much real WW2 combat footage. And so much of it was sloppy - B-17 propellers turning the wrong way, control surfaces misaligned.....what were they thinking? Where was the "script girl".....? The writing was not my style, but as I posted elsewhere, my $300 million was tied up in pork bellies, so Apple got the shot at this series..... It could have been so much better. The last couple of episodes were obviously rushed, but I did like the last four minutes - the departure of the 100th BG's B-17s from Thorpe Abbotts back to the US. It was a poignant moment and I thought the CGI was pretty good, but again in the last sequence, when Cleven's and Egan's B-17 turned onto the runway, the elevators were misaligned..... Sigh.
That’s why I skipped the series entirely, read the book and compared it to Hastings’ “Bomber Command” and other books I’d read over the years for context.
We didn’t have the capability to hit or internal recognition in 1943 of what targets would be most effective in undercutting the German effort - POL - regular and synthetic.
Ataacking targets such as aircraft manufacturing, transportation, ball bearings and U-boat construction all put stress on the German war effort, but oil/fuel/lubricants were the key.
The British inability to jerk a knot in Harris’ ass complicated the USAAF’s ability to conduct a marginally ‘coherent’ targeting policy, and we spent a solid two years realizing what a compromised procurement and planning policy - hobbled by institutional Douhetism among Arnold’s own strategic bombing disciples - we had up to 1943.
Even LeMay’s relative ‘pragmatism’ in 1943 and 44 turned him into Harris over Japan in 1944 and 45.
If anyone who reads “Masters if the Air” gets through the gloom and doom, they’re greeted by more in the years after WW II - ‘strategic’ bombing in Korea and Vietnam up through the Linebacker and Christmas bombings.
Hey Tom, apropos of my comments on MOTA's CGI, here is a short Youtube video showing a mid-air disintegration and crash of an RC He 111H model. Note how the pieces behave as they fall to the ground, especially in he final slow-motion replay..... They twist and tumble and swirl, as you'd expect of aircraft parts in free air, rather than the sedate straight drifting seen in the MOTA CGI scenes.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjncVG2Ws5U
Thanks TC, I learned much about Military research & publication. I am currently working on the crude radar technology available on the Northwest end of Oahu circa 12/1/41 through the bombing of Pearl Harbor. I am aware of the historical data available inside the USS Arizona Memorial site.
Tips?
"At Dawn We Slept" is considered the (current) Definitive Account of Pearl Harbor.
Goggle the name of the radar set (SCR- _ _ _) and follow up on the responses. Youll be amazed at the PDFs you can run across of previously-secret government reports.
The 1944 Congressional Report on Pearl Harbor is an interesting read.
PS - once you get going on this, respond to one of the email posts (click the "respond" arrow at the bottom, and put us in touch. I'll be happy to give the work a look as you proceed.
Sounds like Game of Thrones…too many plot lines and characters to juggle into a coherent storyline and ending up satisfying no one as a result.
It was cartoonish. The guy playing Buck Cleven (Austin Butler) looked like a Ken doll, that the camera repeatedly framed as a stolid, smoldering sex object. . . With not much to say. . .
The kid who played Col. Crosby goes on to play John Wilkes Booth in "Manhunt," streaming on Apple. He didn't seem especially effective as Crosby either.
Great critique. Halberstam satisfies my soul. I’m lucky. Thanks again.
A very underappreciated book nowadays, but for those in the know on Vietnam, absolutely crucial to gaining insight.
Why has there been no film made about the life of Gen. Benjamin Davis? What a life!!