Truly a no-win scenario here. There is no easy solution to this. In dealing with a megalomaniac with his finger on the nukes, the choice between war crimes and nuclear war is awful to contemplate.
So appreciate a fuller description of what a NFZ entails. From what I've heard there are bombs falling from planes but there are plenty of missiles and mortars being fired as well. It is such a terrible situation. Now that Putin is going to bring in Syrian mercenaries and is broadcasting the Russian disinformation about chemical weapons, I suspect he'll do something devastating under cover of darkness. I keep wondering how in the world the West can make a threat that might make him stop the devastation and killing now. He intends to stand atop the broken bodies of Ukrainians and piles of ruble and say he won. And when he says that he'll be turning his eye toward the Baltic or Moldova or finishing off Georgia.
I have been wracking my limited brain for an answer to the horror I watch on TV every day. I have said, and I meant it, that if not for my age and health, I would be there already, those people need help. I get it that we can't impose a NFZ, but what about the UN? The General Assembly could vote maybe with some serious arm twisting, to impose a NFZ over non military targets ie. the cities. Putin is insane but maybe not enough to tangle with the UN, I haven't read anything about that in the background and I wouldn't have expected too, if I can think of it I'm sure many much brighter than me are probably pushing that. There will be a special place in Hell for that bastard, very special, I wish I could send him there tonight.
It would have to be done through the Security Council, where the US, UK, France, Russia and China have vetoes. The only time the Security Council ever took military action was 1950 in Korea, and that was because the USSR was boycotting the UN over the new West German currency. The Russians have never done that again.
Wasn't the UN so toothlessly involved in Bosnia? I wouldn't have thought the Russians would have agreed to that. Does the General Assembly not have any authority, especially when watching a slow motion genocide happen in front of their eyes every day now? The Security Council is designed to do nothing, so there'll be no help stopping it there.
That's a good one. I fully agree. Having a table full of shit sandwiches, that range from solid turds on day old bread to runny stuff on moldy bread and all between, is a helluva choice.
It is not frustration knocking against my brain. He should have been stopped long ago. I remember what he's done and we haven't. Then those before him...and the number here without conscience. You feel this as much as anyone., TC 🌿
Yeah, you could consider Putin's time in office from the first Chechen War in 1999 to the Crimea steal in 2014 as his version of Histler 1936-38 with the Rhineland, the Anschluss, the Munich Crisis and the takeover of Czechoslovakia, with nobody paying attention to anything he did till he invades Poland in 1939.
Your explanation is very explicit and comprehensive enough for many to understand. A lot of people are sharing this post TC.
I want to ask you something….and only because I look to you for very educated opinions based on your experiences….because thinking of all the parameters of what is being levied against Ukraine is f*ucking mind boggling to me.
What do you think is the best path ahead? Is it all really dependent on what Putin does next? Or the degree of criminality and horrible-ness of what might come next? Or, in your opinion, are there really some offensive steps that can be taken by US and allies that have not been done?
And, do you believe that there are things in play that none of us can know about?
give them some of the surplus MLRS they have in Europe so they can counter-fire rockets at the Russian emplacements. Also more artillery. NATO members have a lot of the old Soviet stuff that they know to operate. Also some higher-capability longer-range SAMs than the MANPADS (Stingers, etc.) they're getting. Give them the ability to not only bloody noses but knock out some teeth and break some jaws.
This hit me in the gut: “The people calling for a no-fly zone should explicitly say they are willing to risk nuclear war and the people calling for backing off should explicitly say they are willing to tolerate war crimes. There is no moral high ground for anyone here.”
I think uninformed think that a No-Fly Zone has very little risk, and they would be dead wrong. Your analysis, TC, shows the flaws in that kind of thinking.
Truly a no-win scenario here. There is no easy solution to this. In dealing with a megalomaniac with his finger on the nukes, the choice between war crimes and nuclear war is awful to contemplate.
So appreciate a fuller description of what a NFZ entails. From what I've heard there are bombs falling from planes but there are plenty of missiles and mortars being fired as well. It is such a terrible situation. Now that Putin is going to bring in Syrian mercenaries and is broadcasting the Russian disinformation about chemical weapons, I suspect he'll do something devastating under cover of darkness. I keep wondering how in the world the West can make a threat that might make him stop the devastation and killing now. He intends to stand atop the broken bodies of Ukrainians and piles of ruble and say he won. And when he says that he'll be turning his eye toward the Baltic or Moldova or finishing off Georgia.
too true
Thanks for the in-depth history, TC. Permission to re-post on my FB page?
Always.
Thank you. Shared.
I have been wracking my limited brain for an answer to the horror I watch on TV every day. I have said, and I meant it, that if not for my age and health, I would be there already, those people need help. I get it that we can't impose a NFZ, but what about the UN? The General Assembly could vote maybe with some serious arm twisting, to impose a NFZ over non military targets ie. the cities. Putin is insane but maybe not enough to tangle with the UN, I haven't read anything about that in the background and I wouldn't have expected too, if I can think of it I'm sure many much brighter than me are probably pushing that. There will be a special place in Hell for that bastard, very special, I wish I could send him there tonight.
It would have to be done through the Security Council, where the US, UK, France, Russia and China have vetoes. The only time the Security Council ever took military action was 1950 in Korea, and that was because the USSR was boycotting the UN over the new West German currency. The Russians have never done that again.
Wasn't the UN so toothlessly involved in Bosnia? I wouldn't have thought the Russians would have agreed to that. Does the General Assembly not have any authority, especially when watching a slow motion genocide happen in front of their eyes every day now? The Security Council is designed to do nothing, so there'll be no help stopping it there.
That was when Russia was willing to work with us, back under Yeltsin.
Putin has to be stopped. If NATO/USA doesn't end this genocide within the next few days, which won't end with Ukraine, it is on us.
We're going to have to agree to disagree on this Fern. There are no good outcomes.
TC, This is a poem that I would like to share with you. With appreciation and respect, Fern
https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poetrymagazine/poems/36798/amid-mounting-evidence
That's a good one. I fully agree. Having a table full of shit sandwiches, that range from solid turds on day old bread to runny stuff on moldy bread and all between, is a helluva choice.
It is not frustration knocking against my brain. He should have been stopped long ago. I remember what he's done and we haven't. Then those before him...and the number here without conscience. You feel this as much as anyone., TC 🌿
Yeah, you could consider Putin's time in office from the first Chechen War in 1999 to the Crimea steal in 2014 as his version of Histler 1936-38 with the Rhineland, the Anschluss, the Munich Crisis and the takeover of Czechoslovakia, with nobody paying attention to anything he did till he invades Poland in 1939.
TC, Allen checked in. The hope is that Tanya will be well enough to travel to Poland tomorrow. Good night.
understood
Trust me, I fully understand your frustration, and only having visited the two Ground Zeros on the planet keep me in my position on this.
Your explanation is very explicit and comprehensive enough for many to understand. A lot of people are sharing this post TC.
I want to ask you something….and only because I look to you for very educated opinions based on your experiences….because thinking of all the parameters of what is being levied against Ukraine is f*ucking mind boggling to me.
What do you think is the best path ahead? Is it all really dependent on what Putin does next? Or the degree of criminality and horrible-ness of what might come next? Or, in your opinion, are there really some offensive steps that can be taken by US and allies that have not been done?
And, do you believe that there are things in play that none of us can know about?
Thank you, TC, for all you affect.
give them some of the surplus MLRS they have in Europe so they can counter-fire rockets at the Russian emplacements. Also more artillery. NATO members have a lot of the old Soviet stuff that they know to operate. Also some higher-capability longer-range SAMs than the MANPADS (Stingers, etc.) they're getting. Give them the ability to not only bloody noses but knock out some teeth and break some jaws.
This hit me in the gut: “The people calling for a no-fly zone should explicitly say they are willing to risk nuclear war and the people calling for backing off should explicitly say they are willing to tolerate war crimes. There is no moral high ground for anyone here.”
It does me also. It should.
Thank you for this explanation. This is a horrible situation.
I think uninformed think that a No-Fly Zone has very little risk, and they would be dead wrong. Your analysis, TC, shows the flaws in that kind of thinking.
Thanks for this cogent explanation. I will share.