On November 19, 1863, President Abraham Lincoln asked the essential question about this constitutional democratic republic: “Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent a new nation, conceived in liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal. Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure.”
Very well written. Your earlier post caught the initial reaction of all of us. But now the reality of the violent assault we have all experienced is sinking in. There's not much doubt that things will get worse before they get better. A caged animal is extremely dangerous. But this could be the beginning of the healing this country needs so badly.
that's at least two of us...very, very smart guy. superb tactician, and, pretty certainly, a brilliant strategist as well.
what I'm worrying about now is the whole issue of how important it is for the thing to be televised. there are, I think, lots and lots of fence-sitters (hard as that is to believe) who'll find the whole thing pretty easy to dismiss if they can't see it with their own eyes. if it's up to Roberts, I can't imagine he'll come through.
or am I being hopelessly naive about the fence-sitters?
I don't know anyone in disagreement about televising it. The individual judge can approve it. And yes, we all need to see it. Everybody. Literally the Trial of the Century.
To quote Joyce Vance, 'Finally, cameras in the courtroom. Chief Justice Roberts could ensure these proceedings were made publicly available. He can order that there be cameras in the courts.'
Hi, TC. Looks like you and Neal will have to talk to the Chief Justice if there is to be tv and other visual coverage of the USA's criminal case v. Trump, so that Americans can watch the trial.
I do not think that an individual judge can approve media coverage of a federal criminal trial.
'Electronic media coverage of criminal proceedings in federal courts has been expressly prohibited under Federal Rule of Criminal Procedure 53 since the criminal rules were adopted in 1946. Rule 53 states: "[e]xcept as otherwise provided by a statute or these rules, the court must not permit the taking of photographs in the courtroom during judicial proceedings or the broadcasting of judicial proceedings from the courtroom." (UnitedStatesCourts) See link below.
I agree that it is important that the trial be televised. If for no other reason than to assure the ease of fact-based reporting being able to show video clips of key testimony. I’m not sure how many of the fence sitters have the time or care enough to watch the actual trial, but hope that they will at least be exposed to important clips.
I am not a fence sitter, but I don’t think my mental health will survive me watching more of that vicious clown. I saw his crimes in real time. Televise if he can be gagged. I would love to watch him one more time, in orange with cuffs on.
Well, trump has been indicted as “The Defendant” but has yet to face a jury in a court of law…some small consolation as the real spectacle has yet to play out. We’ll see where this goes, but I don’t think much will change about the rift in our society, where too many voters are only too glad to scrap the grand experiment in self rule and go full tilt authoritarian instead. This is only the beginning…
I pray you are right. It’s a threat more dire than Lincoln faced. Hard to believe but I have watched the propaganda machine (set up by former presidents, Pharisees, think tanks, billionaires, and yes, racists) grind on with “alternative facts” to fool the ignorant. The greedy and power-hungry knew well. This is not accidental, but carefully planned and executed. Chump came along and provided the con for the artists.
And still I’m deeply troubled. We have a first amendment right to say whatever we wish, including lies. I thought that right ended at harm - “yelling fire in a crowded theater”- and yet the lies and subsequent harm continue. As long as Trump can spread his poisonous lies through social media and broadcast news the danger continues. Nothing in this indictment prevents him from continuing to instigate. In addition, now we have Elon Musk with his inflated sense of self, great wealth, Twitter platform and near monopoly on satellite communication as another dangerous actor in this dark play. And then there is Ron DeSantis who could yet rise from the ashes of his own arrogance and slip into place if Trump falls. At 75 and in failing health, I see a lifetime of activism being swept away. Even if Trump goes to prison, it will take a long time to put the Republic back together. I live in hope, but, my heart grows heavy.
Trump is being held to account under the "yelling fire" rule. You can yell "fire!" in a crowded theater; you cannot defend saying that with the First Amendment. As the indictment reads, he can say all the lies he wants; he just can't use them to commit fraud, a crime.
“The attack on our nation’s Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021, was an unprecedented assault on the seat of American democracy. As described in the indictment, it was fueled by lies – lies by the defendant targeted at obstructing a bedrock function of the U.S. government: the nation’s process of collecting, counting and certifying the results of the presidential election.”
Special prosecutor, Jack Smith, described the gravity facing our country. He has produced a legal masterpiece with this indictment.
Would he call a successful trial against Trump and our country's pursuit of justice and democracy 'exceptional'? I hope that we delete that word 'exceptional' as associated with the US. from our vocabulary. I think it poisonous to laud it over other countries as 'exceptional' implies, just as it is for 'Whites' to think themselves superior.
A minor but important quibble with a well written article that describes the feelings of what is almost certainly a majority of the people in this country.
The failed insurrectionist has been called to account for his crimes. In New York, in Florida, and now in Washington; we will know as the trials progress whether or not he will be held accountable. If he is, then this remarkable experiment will continue. If not, the vision you present will be our fate.
Speaking as an ordinary citizen in answer to the essential question posed by President Abraham Lincoln as to whether our constitutional democratic republic "can long endure."
This nation, TC, the one envisioned in the Constitution that you and I in our callow youths took an oath to protect and defend against all enemies foreign and domestic, can indeed endure if we, the majority of the American people who honor that vision, stand in solidarity as citizens, and via the processes of democratic government, destroy the cancer on the body politic that the fascist Republican Party of Trump has become. This historical crossroads is in many ways World War II all over again, except now the enemy is here, on our soil, and is empowered by one of the parties in our own corrupted duopoly. So it's up to us, people like you and people like those of us ardent readers of your eloquent resurrections of the spirit of Democracy, to rally to the cause of freedom, justice and equality with the full measure of willingness demonstrated by the founders of this country to rise above our immediate rights of self interest and "pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor."
This happened because one of our two political parties became so warped and hollowed out that a rally clown like Trump could insult his way to a nomination. Behind that was the Electoral College, which should have been a Bulwark if it was worth a damn - it wasn't and isn't. We must find a way to flush it, and the current Republican party. MAGA is a minority. Send them back under their rocks.
Wow, Tom - this is one of your best, in a large collection of well-written stuff..... A very thoughtful and insightful exposition. How indeed have we failed to educate our citizens in the functioning and processes of our government? I suspect this was not entirely accidental, covered up by the need "to emphasize STEM"..... It is appalling to see people so ignorant of the country that they profess to love.
Morning Tom, This is a very well thought out and presented essay in what is sure to be an avalanche of opinions about the historic DJT indictment. Thanks.
Not sure exactly how much of this is sentiment and how much is sensible based on this latest development, 50 / 50 perhaps. But based on yesterday's news, my money's on Alvin Bragg, Jack Smith, Fani Willis and all the rest of *us*, and the rest of those *not* with us be damned. To hell with their threats, to hell with their guns. And to hell with them.
For me, the really sad day(s) began in 2016 and only got progressively worse. The indictments yesterday brought a profound sense of RELIEF. Maybe now I can breathe again. I feel as if I've been holding my breath (and my nose) for the past seven years!
Facts will not change the MAGA base. They care not about policy or US government. They are a cult enamored by a fat racist bastard with whom they can relate. 💩
The fact may change the margins. As many analysts have pointed out, changing Trump support by even a few percentage points has an outsize result in the election, given the Electoral College and the closeness of the race.
You have focused on all the right things here, with only one omission, that of the indictment being brought by "23 ordinary American citizens." Yes, Jack Smith has been masterful in his narrative and in his architecture of the charges, but it was those 23 who mattered going forward. It's those 23 who did not give in to "alternative facts," the current weapon of fascists. Now I can only hope that the Trumpanzees will not be able to identify and threaten and harass these ordinary citizens.
Credit must also be given to former Speaker Pelosi and members of the House J6 Committee which developed massive amounts of information and witnesses which enabled Jack Smith to take a running start in his investigation.
Very well written. Your earlier post caught the initial reaction of all of us. But now the reality of the violent assault we have all experienced is sinking in. There's not much doubt that things will get worse before they get better. A caged animal is extremely dangerous. But this could be the beginning of the healing this country needs so badly.
Constant vigilance until 2024 and beyond!
I am in awe of Jack Smith!
that's at least two of us...very, very smart guy. superb tactician, and, pretty certainly, a brilliant strategist as well.
what I'm worrying about now is the whole issue of how important it is for the thing to be televised. there are, I think, lots and lots of fence-sitters (hard as that is to believe) who'll find the whole thing pretty easy to dismiss if they can't see it with their own eyes. if it's up to Roberts, I can't imagine he'll come through.
or am I being hopelessly naive about the fence-sitters?
I don't know anyone in disagreement about televising it. The individual judge can approve it. And yes, we all need to see it. Everybody. Literally the Trial of the Century.
To quote Joyce Vance, 'Finally, cameras in the courtroom. Chief Justice Roberts could ensure these proceedings were made publicly available. He can order that there be cameras in the courts.'
Thanks Fern - other people (like Neal Katyal) have said the individual judge can also.
Tom Cleaver and Neal Katyal, a powerful team, that I have a great deal of respect for. Thank you!
"Always cite a solid source." - the Old Perfesser :-)
Hi, TC. Looks like you and Neal will have to talk to the Chief Justice if there is to be tv and other visual coverage of the USA's criminal case v. Trump, so that Americans can watch the trial.
I'm sure someone will, Fern. :-)
I do not think that an individual judge can approve media coverage of a federal criminal trial.
'Electronic media coverage of criminal proceedings in federal courts has been expressly prohibited under Federal Rule of Criminal Procedure 53 since the criminal rules were adopted in 1946. Rule 53 states: "[e]xcept as otherwise provided by a statute or these rules, the court must not permit the taking of photographs in the courtroom during judicial proceedings or the broadcasting of judicial proceedings from the courtroom." (UnitedStatesCourts) See link below.
https://www.uscourts.gov/about-federal-courts/judicial-administration/cameras-courts/history-cameras-courts
I agree that it is important that the trial be televised. If for no other reason than to assure the ease of fact-based reporting being able to show video clips of key testimony. I’m not sure how many of the fence sitters have the time or care enough to watch the actual trial, but hope that they will at least be exposed to important clips.
I am not a fence sitter, but I don’t think my mental health will survive me watching more of that vicious clown. I saw his crimes in real time. Televise if he can be gagged. I would love to watch him one more time, in orange with cuffs on.
Well, trump has been indicted as “The Defendant” but has yet to face a jury in a court of law…some small consolation as the real spectacle has yet to play out. We’ll see where this goes, but I don’t think much will change about the rift in our society, where too many voters are only too glad to scrap the grand experiment in self rule and go full tilt authoritarian instead. This is only the beginning…
Didn't say it was gonna be easy. :-)
Nope, this is just the overture, and the fat lady doesn’t sing until the fourth act…
I pray you are right. It’s a threat more dire than Lincoln faced. Hard to believe but I have watched the propaganda machine (set up by former presidents, Pharisees, think tanks, billionaires, and yes, racists) grind on with “alternative facts” to fool the ignorant. The greedy and power-hungry knew well. This is not accidental, but carefully planned and executed. Chump came along and provided the con for the artists.
And still I’m deeply troubled. We have a first amendment right to say whatever we wish, including lies. I thought that right ended at harm - “yelling fire in a crowded theater”- and yet the lies and subsequent harm continue. As long as Trump can spread his poisonous lies through social media and broadcast news the danger continues. Nothing in this indictment prevents him from continuing to instigate. In addition, now we have Elon Musk with his inflated sense of self, great wealth, Twitter platform and near monopoly on satellite communication as another dangerous actor in this dark play. And then there is Ron DeSantis who could yet rise from the ashes of his own arrogance and slip into place if Trump falls. At 75 and in failing health, I see a lifetime of activism being swept away. Even if Trump goes to prison, it will take a long time to put the Republic back together. I live in hope, but, my heart grows heavy.
Trump is being held to account under the "yelling fire" rule. You can yell "fire!" in a crowded theater; you cannot defend saying that with the First Amendment. As the indictment reads, he can say all the lies he wants; he just can't use them to commit fraud, a crime.
Jack Smith, special prosecutor:
“The attack on our nation’s Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021, was an unprecedented assault on the seat of American democracy. As described in the indictment, it was fueled by lies – lies by the defendant targeted at obstructing a bedrock function of the U.S. government: the nation’s process of collecting, counting and certifying the results of the presidential election.”
Special prosecutor, Jack Smith, described the gravity facing our country. He has produced a legal masterpiece with this indictment.
Would he call a successful trial against Trump and our country's pursuit of justice and democracy 'exceptional'? I hope that we delete that word 'exceptional' as associated with the US. from our vocabulary. I think it poisonous to laud it over other countries as 'exceptional' implies, just as it is for 'Whites' to think themselves superior.
In this case we may be the exception to the general rule that no other society has been able to successfully do what we are setting out to do.
I take exception as indicated. US military interventions in the Philippines, Vietnam and Iraq also come to mind, let alone our tie to slavery...
I LOVE "legal masterpiece!"
why didn't I think of it?
A minor but important quibble with a well written article that describes the feelings of what is almost certainly a majority of the people in this country.
The failed insurrectionist has been called to account for his crimes. In New York, in Florida, and now in Washington; we will know as the trials progress whether or not he will be held accountable. If he is, then this remarkable experiment will continue. If not, the vision you present will be our fate.
Dave, don’t forget Georgia of the Perfect Phone Call. Fani Willis awaits.
Allow me to quote another Republican who found himself in Trump’s crosshairs, James Comey. “Lordy, I hope there are tapes.”
Fani has the tapes. 👍🏻✊🏻
Rumor has it that there will be indictments by the middle of this month. We'll see.
Speaking as an ordinary citizen in answer to the essential question posed by President Abraham Lincoln as to whether our constitutional democratic republic "can long endure."
This nation, TC, the one envisioned in the Constitution that you and I in our callow youths took an oath to protect and defend against all enemies foreign and domestic, can indeed endure if we, the majority of the American people who honor that vision, stand in solidarity as citizens, and via the processes of democratic government, destroy the cancer on the body politic that the fascist Republican Party of Trump has become. This historical crossroads is in many ways World War II all over again, except now the enemy is here, on our soil, and is empowered by one of the parties in our own corrupted duopoly. So it's up to us, people like you and people like those of us ardent readers of your eloquent resurrections of the spirit of Democracy, to rally to the cause of freedom, justice and equality with the full measure of willingness demonstrated by the founders of this country to rise above our immediate rights of self interest and "pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor."
A Las Barricadas!
Lance the boil, break the fever - my it be so in this case, for the patient is in serious condition.....
To the barricades indeed! I've been there since there was a true election theft in 2000.
This happened because one of our two political parties became so warped and hollowed out that a rally clown like Trump could insult his way to a nomination. Behind that was the Electoral College, which should have been a Bulwark if it was worth a damn - it wasn't and isn't. We must find a way to flush it, and the current Republican party. MAGA is a minority. Send them back under their rocks.
Tom, great, thoughtful column.
Wow, Tom - this is one of your best, in a large collection of well-written stuff..... A very thoughtful and insightful exposition. How indeed have we failed to educate our citizens in the functioning and processes of our government? I suspect this was not entirely accidental, covered up by the need "to emphasize STEM"..... It is appalling to see people so ignorant of the country that they profess to love.
Morning Tom, This is a very well thought out and presented essay in what is sure to be an avalanche of opinions about the historic DJT indictment. Thanks.
Right on.
Not sure exactly how much of this is sentiment and how much is sensible based on this latest development, 50 / 50 perhaps. But based on yesterday's news, my money's on Alvin Bragg, Jack Smith, Fani Willis and all the rest of *us*, and the rest of those *not* with us be damned. To hell with their threats, to hell with their guns. And to hell with them.
For me, the really sad day(s) began in 2016 and only got progressively worse. The indictments yesterday brought a profound sense of RELIEF. Maybe now I can breathe again. I feel as if I've been holding my breath (and my nose) for the past seven years!
Yes indeed.
Facts will not change the MAGA base. They care not about policy or US government. They are a cult enamored by a fat racist bastard with whom they can relate. 💩
The fact may change the margins. As many analysts have pointed out, changing Trump support by even a few percentage points has an outsize result in the election, given the Electoral College and the closeness of the race.
I agree. I am referring to the blind followers.
You have focused on all the right things here, with only one omission, that of the indictment being brought by "23 ordinary American citizens." Yes, Jack Smith has been masterful in his narrative and in his architecture of the charges, but it was those 23 who mattered going forward. It's those 23 who did not give in to "alternative facts," the current weapon of fascists. Now I can only hope that the Trumpanzees will not be able to identify and threaten and harass these ordinary citizens.
Credit must also be given to former Speaker Pelosi and members of the House J6 Committee which developed massive amounts of information and witnesses which enabled Jack Smith to take a running start in his investigation.
Yes!