If you want to be optimistic about the progress of debt-limit negotiations, you’re going to have to find it somewhere in this mess: No. 1: Speaker Kevin McCarthy, Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer, House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell met on Tuesday. Biden reported that “the speaker had issues.” No progress was made, but the staffs were to meet and the principles were to meet on Friday.
These Republicans are batsh*t crazy. Do they really think that tanking the US economy and the world's economy also will be the fault of Joe Biden? We all see what they are doing just like we saw that mob riot at the Capital. The hurt to families and individuals will be astronomical. But of course, Mitch McConnell made the 2008 recession last extra long because he wanted to make Obama look bad. These people are domestic terrorists!
JennSH, Not crazy at all. Billionaires have enough money to weather the econ storm and will buy up the country for pennies on the dollar in the aftermath
McCarthy’s tenure depends on him crashing the economy as he was told to do
Oh my God. That’s a terrifying and very plausible explanation. It’s in line with big R donors demanding tax cuts for themselves, us peons be damned. It fits with the behavior of people like Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, and the guy whose name I’m blanking who gave Leonard Leo $1.6 billion as an endowment to fund massive longterm investments to turn the country into a white christianist laissez-faire capitalist autocracy. Do we have any scraps of factual evidence to back up this very believable theory?
The 14th amendment is very clear that “the validity of the debt shall not be questioned”. In my opinion Biden needs to realize these clowns are not interested in negotiating, and the days of bipartisanship are gone with this group of morons leading congress. Quit going through the time wasting monkey motions with them and just invoke the 14th and pay our debt. No doubt the legal battles will ensue but ours and the worlds economy will remain intact, and the sniveling, traitorous morons in congress will have lost their hostage.
The way the Heller decision dispensed with qualifying clauses would suggest that the Disgraced Roberts Court must rule that the 14th Amendment unequivocally states that The United States must pay its debt. Of course expecting that kind of consistency from this corrupt cabal is a fool’s errand. Roberts and his fellow goons are operating as a secret super legislature beyond the congress’ ability to control its fiats.
Invoke the 14th and go about the business of running the country. The Supremes can catch up or ignore it as they choose (declining involvement would be the smart move). Save the effing country!
This is a tragic reminder of the lack of vision and leadership among the current Democratic leaders, a trend that is of long standing. Your point about Biden's hesitance to invoke the 14th amendment is spot on - that is exactly the problem I see with Smokin' Joe - he is a bipartisan collaborator and is unable to recognize the game has changed. I suspect many other long-term Democratic leaders have the same perception problem, and it will kill us. The stupid insistence on bipartisan action on everything, even when the Republicans have demonstrated no interest in bipartisanship at all, is to me stunning.
My representative in the house is Kevin Kiley (R) and this is his first term. I'm not at all impressed so far. He held a telephone town hall this past Thursday and I was on the line for it. He said that he had voted to raise the debt ceiling but left out the part about the conditions that Republicans had attached to it. He referred to their noble vote to raise the debt ceiling a couple of times in just 1/2 hour. He also told someone who asked if their Social Security check would stop coming if the debt ceiling was not raised that Social Security checks would not stop coming if the debt ceiling wasn't raised.
This guy deals in half-truths and outright lies. I also got a flyer in the mail from him in which he claimed that he was very pleased to let us know that he voted against the additional funding for the I.R.S. and that it meant we wouldn't have to worry about intrusive audits of we good middle-class folk.
Multiply all of his disingenuous blather by 222 and it explains a lot.
he sounds like a lying, mealymouthed prick. there are so very many.
this two-party system has turned into something between a really bad joke and an equally bad dream. I'm being as literal as I can.
it's also like that thing your brain does to slow everything down at the beginning of a car accident.
invoking the 14th amendment is obviously the way to go. it almost doesn't matter what happens afterward, since McCarthy is not "negotiating" in any "real" context I can think of.
but, on the bright side, an excellent, succinct account of of a whole mess of trouble. good on you, Tom.
Jeri I agree. That is the reason I fear AI. Corporations will control AI and their willingness to foul a nearby river, push fossil fuel or tobacco while knowing better is not comforting.
The MAGA morons have drawn their disingenuous line in the sand. So be it. Now it's time to activate the 14th and force the domestic terrorists to obey the law. If they refuse, fight the ensuing legal battles and take the matter to the streets if necessary. We need bold, decisive leadership that reflects the rule of law as stated in the Constitution. These are Fascist pigs we're dealing with, not decent human beings concerned about Democracy and the common good. Biden and company must exercise responsible leadership. This is Biden's Abraham Lincoln moment. Stand up for Liberty and Justice, Joe, not the corrupt protocols of duopoly politics as usual. You are the fucking President of the Untied States--act like it!
There's no reason for us to have to put up with a playground bully. None. You can't hold an entire country hostage simply because you want something that isn't someone else's to give! Someone needs to slap McCrappy upside the head and MOVE ON.
When the bills don't get paid Washington salaries and perks should be held hostage because they are the ones not getting the job done. Knock out military pay and Social Security checks too, and make sure the message is that the GOP gave it all to Trump but has made it a weapon against Biden and the country be damned. Say it loudly and repeatedly and through every media outlet because McCarthy is already trying to hang it around Biden's neck. McCarthy has to become the same bogeyman that the GOP made Pelosi out to be.
Over the years I've seen different governors in my state request a formal legal opinion from the state Attorney General as to the legality / constitutionality of some proposed action before proceeding (or not) with it. I believe at this point Biden should already have had such a ruling from the U.S. Attorney General in hand regarding continuing to pay the nation's debts vis a vie the 14th Amendment if Congress fails to raise the debt ceiling. And, assuming it was 'favorable' in that regard (and from all I've read I believe it would be), the next time he sits down with the Rs he should toss it on the table in front of them and say...
"We can talk about and negotiate about anything you choose today, but it will not be linked to raising the debt ceiling. You will do that, or I will do this. Period. Full Stop. And if you fail to do so and then oppose my action in court, when the national and global economic cluster fuck that that would be comes to pass, I'll hang it all around your collective necks like a necklace of rancid meat. Now, what's on your minds?"
Saying this goes against my own "economic self-interest" in that I'm semi-retired, work part time, draw Social Security and have money sitting in different 'investments'. And the huge economic disruption and untold damage that would come from a national default caused by a protracted or even brief court fight and the consequences both known and unknown thereof would hurt me every bit as much as any working man near the end of his working days. There would be no time and no way for me to 'make up for the loss'. But enough of this goddamned shit is enough.
If we're going to keep saying that we don't negotiate with terrorists, at some point we have to mean it. And at some point, the Ds need to show up to a gunfight with an actual gun instead of a butter knife.
We're now at that point. And it's time to lock and load.
Absolutely right - time for the Dems to grow a pair, or a spine..... An excellent point about doing the 14th and letting the Republicans take the rap if they try to block that approach with a lawsuit..... That would be the second best way out of this (first way is not defaulting at all).....
If they were my children I would slap them silly then tie them to chains facing each other and have them sit there until they settled their “differences “.
jeez, Karen...the same thing happened to me. I thought for awhile it might be a sign of some kind for me to start working. but I sat down and waited for it to pass. what I need to be writing doesn't belong in Substack. or at least, I don't think so.
and because it's you and I changed my avatar, it's a picture from 1976 or '7. a sort of quasi-publicity shot of the team (that's David Forman at the piano) working on something or other. I'm not sure who took it. if I knew I'd be using it as my avatar well into the next century, I might have arranged to be skinnier. but I had swell hair.
Ah, pardon me, David. The woman is David Forman, so much for my attention to your words. As for your 'eyes', they were mostly hidden behind the glasses brightened by the light.
Hi David. Your reply was to me, yet, you addressed 'Karen'. Is this confusion a result of, perhaps, a wandering focus on your part; the wish to communicate with Karen and taking the the wrong route by mistake? There is something familiar about it to me; a Davidism?
Yes, you had a bush of lively, dark hair and bright eyes as a younger man with a generous layer of flesh. You mention nothing about the woman.
That's enough of David for a while.
You and Tom are another story for, perhaps, another day.
From what I've been able to suss out about that subscribe thing, if you don't have a Substack, it acts like a 'contingency'. If you ever start one, those 'subscriptions' will automatically kick in. I have a couple of 'subscribers' and no newsletter. The subscribers are a couple of folks I interact with in a couple of different comment sections. I suspect some people hit the 'subscribe button' thinking that means they can follow that individual in 'Notes', which it does not. That is a separate icon hidden under a draw down.
I'm guessing Substack set things up like this to try to spur more individuals to start a publication of their own. Can't really think of any other reason.
Thanks, Mim. I'm here and on LFAA because I'm a subscriber, just don't want to start a substack. I have tried Support@substack.com a number of times and will try again. If it works this time, I will be grateful to you.
Am I going to get a social security check on 6/2? My SNAP benefits? Am I going to have to raid and drain my investment account to cover my expenses for dog knows how long? These people are just so insolent, ignorant and mean. Oh, and you forgot Paul Ryan and his fervent wish to kick disabled people (like me) to the curb.
I agree with Karen RN below regarding the 14th amendment. The United States has a debt obligation which protects everyone in the US including the dumba**** who have taken a 4 vote control of the house and of mccarthy's tiny balls. What a cabal...in the house (there's actually 147 there who believe djt won and actually the 14th should require them to never hold public office again, but that isn't going to happen)...the other cabal is of course scotus. Frankly once this debacle has been resolved there must be action taken to remove this whole "debt ceiling" situation out of the hands of the congress. It can also not be in the hands of the president or the courts. The issue for me at least is that as long as all kinds of tax cuts are designed to enrich only a small part of the population the debt situation will continue to increase. When the speaker comes saying "no taxes just cuts", which are essentially libertarian politics, solving debt becomes one party saying to the 99.9 percent of the population, "If you can't pay for it (whatever it might be - food, health care, education, clean water, retirement, wounds left from wars, etc.) you're out of luck. We're dealing with an entrenched oligarchy who will never get enough to feel satisfied. Their lobby industry infest the halls of agencies and congressional offices like the blood suckers they are. The gop has pandered to this small group for generations. Some dems have done the same. Clinton for one. But, it does not have to be this way. For this situation to change, however, we the people must get smarter and more savvy about how the economy actually works and where the money is going. We must do more than gripe that's for sure. I mean, how can mccarthy keep getting elected? And some of the other guys and gals as well. It is ridiculous that people have elected the very folks who are pointing guns at our heads. And djt says let it crash. Of course. Chaos and confusion is the main tactic listed in the fascist handbook. It undergirds all the other steps to political takeover. Keep everyone off balance, frightened, and angry. Resistance is smarter than that, I hope. Biden and his administration must be stronger in their resistance and more creative. If they make the argument compelling enough the sane people in our midst, and there are still some, will respond.
We should go back and codify "The Gephardt Rule," which was that Congress passing a budget was deemed to have raised the debt ceiling to cover the new obligations.
Well put. And what Biden doesn't understand is that he has every right to argue that to violate the pertinent clause of the 14th Amendment is to commit treason, and he has the right to respond to that.
These Republicans are batsh*t crazy. Do they really think that tanking the US economy and the world's economy also will be the fault of Joe Biden? We all see what they are doing just like we saw that mob riot at the Capital. The hurt to families and individuals will be astronomical. But of course, Mitch McConnell made the 2008 recession last extra long because he wanted to make Obama look bad. These people are domestic terrorists!
McConnell included…. Doesn’t take a genius to see that they are all of the same stripe, domestic terrorists
JennSH, Not crazy at all. Billionaires have enough money to weather the econ storm and will buy up the country for pennies on the dollar in the aftermath
McCarthy’s tenure depends on him crashing the economy as he was told to do
Oh my God. That’s a terrifying and very plausible explanation. It’s in line with big R donors demanding tax cuts for themselves, us peons be damned. It fits with the behavior of people like Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, and the guy whose name I’m blanking who gave Leonard Leo $1.6 billion as an endowment to fund massive longterm investments to turn the country into a white christianist laissez-faire capitalist autocracy. Do we have any scraps of factual evidence to back up this very believable theory?
Conjecture and Gilded Age Deja Vu is all
Still, your conjecture is alarmingly plausible.
I spent many years in manufacturing doing “what if’ing” and root cause analysis
Image the road forward, then attempt to debunk it using the data available
The 14th amendment is very clear that “the validity of the debt shall not be questioned”. In my opinion Biden needs to realize these clowns are not interested in negotiating, and the days of bipartisanship are gone with this group of morons leading congress. Quit going through the time wasting monkey motions with them and just invoke the 14th and pay our debt. No doubt the legal battles will ensue but ours and the worlds economy will remain intact, and the sniveling, traitorous morons in congress will have lost their hostage.
The way the Heller decision dispensed with qualifying clauses would suggest that the Disgraced Roberts Court must rule that the 14th Amendment unequivocally states that The United States must pay its debt. Of course expecting that kind of consistency from this corrupt cabal is a fool’s errand. Roberts and his fellow goons are operating as a secret super legislature beyond the congress’ ability to control its fiats.
Listen to KarenRN Joe, “bipartisan bull Schitt” is just that.
Invoke the 14th and go about the business of running the country. The Supremes can catch up or ignore it as they choose (declining involvement would be the smart move). Save the effing country!
👍👍👍
This is a tragic reminder of the lack of vision and leadership among the current Democratic leaders, a trend that is of long standing. Your point about Biden's hesitance to invoke the 14th amendment is spot on - that is exactly the problem I see with Smokin' Joe - he is a bipartisan collaborator and is unable to recognize the game has changed. I suspect many other long-term Democratic leaders have the same perception problem, and it will kill us. The stupid insistence on bipartisan action on everything, even when the Republicans have demonstrated no interest in bipartisanship at all, is to me stunning.
Damn right
Yes, it's all bareknuckles all the time now.
Stunning after all the evidence before our eyes. As Orwell said (sort of) Are you going to believe me or your lying eyes.
My representative in the house is Kevin Kiley (R) and this is his first term. I'm not at all impressed so far. He held a telephone town hall this past Thursday and I was on the line for it. He said that he had voted to raise the debt ceiling but left out the part about the conditions that Republicans had attached to it. He referred to their noble vote to raise the debt ceiling a couple of times in just 1/2 hour. He also told someone who asked if their Social Security check would stop coming if the debt ceiling was not raised that Social Security checks would not stop coming if the debt ceiling wasn't raised.
This guy deals in half-truths and outright lies. I also got a flyer in the mail from him in which he claimed that he was very pleased to let us know that he voted against the additional funding for the I.R.S. and that it meant we wouldn't have to worry about intrusive audits of we good middle-class folk.
Multiply all of his disingenuous blather by 222 and it explains a lot.
he sounds like a lying, mealymouthed prick. there are so very many.
this two-party system has turned into something between a really bad joke and an equally bad dream. I'm being as literal as I can.
it's also like that thing your brain does to slow everything down at the beginning of a car accident.
invoking the 14th amendment is obviously the way to go. it almost doesn't matter what happens afterward, since McCarthy is not "negotiating" in any "real" context I can think of.
but, on the bright side, an excellent, succinct account of of a whole mess of trouble. good on you, Tom.
He is exactly what all R’s are these days. Domestic terrorists, lying bastards, and enemies of every citizen of conscience
Susan A. My R rep is the same. Propaganda puppets who are fed a new message every day to rile the base
I don’t like the situation, but I appreciate you writing about it.
Corporations have profit motive at the highest level so why are they silent? We are all stakeholders in the US economy so why is there not uproar?
Corporations are political nuts too, but sure thought their bottom line was more important than ANYTHING else.
Jeri I agree. That is the reason I fear AI. Corporations will control AI and their willingness to foul a nearby river, push fossil fuel or tobacco while knowing better is not comforting.
The MAGA morons have drawn their disingenuous line in the sand. So be it. Now it's time to activate the 14th and force the domestic terrorists to obey the law. If they refuse, fight the ensuing legal battles and take the matter to the streets if necessary. We need bold, decisive leadership that reflects the rule of law as stated in the Constitution. These are Fascist pigs we're dealing with, not decent human beings concerned about Democracy and the common good. Biden and company must exercise responsible leadership. This is Biden's Abraham Lincoln moment. Stand up for Liberty and Justice, Joe, not the corrupt protocols of duopoly politics as usual. You are the fucking President of the Untied States--act like it!
Bleepin' A!!!
There's no reason for us to have to put up with a playground bully. None. You can't hold an entire country hostage simply because you want something that isn't someone else's to give! Someone needs to slap McCrappy upside the head and MOVE ON.
When the bills don't get paid Washington salaries and perks should be held hostage because they are the ones not getting the job done. Knock out military pay and Social Security checks too, and make sure the message is that the GOP gave it all to Trump but has made it a weapon against Biden and the country be damned. Say it loudly and repeatedly and through every media outlet because McCarthy is already trying to hang it around Biden's neck. McCarthy has to become the same bogeyman that the GOP made Pelosi out to be.
Over the years I've seen different governors in my state request a formal legal opinion from the state Attorney General as to the legality / constitutionality of some proposed action before proceeding (or not) with it. I believe at this point Biden should already have had such a ruling from the U.S. Attorney General in hand regarding continuing to pay the nation's debts vis a vie the 14th Amendment if Congress fails to raise the debt ceiling. And, assuming it was 'favorable' in that regard (and from all I've read I believe it would be), the next time he sits down with the Rs he should toss it on the table in front of them and say...
"We can talk about and negotiate about anything you choose today, but it will not be linked to raising the debt ceiling. You will do that, or I will do this. Period. Full Stop. And if you fail to do so and then oppose my action in court, when the national and global economic cluster fuck that that would be comes to pass, I'll hang it all around your collective necks like a necklace of rancid meat. Now, what's on your minds?"
Saying this goes against my own "economic self-interest" in that I'm semi-retired, work part time, draw Social Security and have money sitting in different 'investments'. And the huge economic disruption and untold damage that would come from a national default caused by a protracted or even brief court fight and the consequences both known and unknown thereof would hurt me every bit as much as any working man near the end of his working days. There would be no time and no way for me to 'make up for the loss'. But enough of this goddamned shit is enough.
If we're going to keep saying that we don't negotiate with terrorists, at some point we have to mean it. And at some point, the Ds need to show up to a gunfight with an actual gun instead of a butter knife.
We're now at that point. And it's time to lock and load.
Exactly right!!
Absolutely right - time for the Dems to grow a pair, or a spine..... An excellent point about doing the 14th and letting the Republicans take the rap if they try to block that approach with a lawsuit..... That would be the second best way out of this (first way is not defaulting at all).....
If they were my children I would slap them silly then tie them to chains facing each other and have them sit there until they settled their “differences “.
If they were your children, you would already have raised them not to be arrogant, fatuous, lying sycophantic tools of the highest bidder.
Ask Biden to take a nap, while Lawrence Tribe solves the debt-limit issue.
PS Your piece was neat as a pin; there was nothing messy about it.
PSS Substack is malfunctioning from my point of view. I have no intention of having a
Substack and never did. I cannot get this organization to stop the false advertising.
Anyone who knows how to contact the organization please say so. I have tried. Tom, HELP!
Just ignore it - the system has the "start writing" plugged in and they can't take it out.
Is the “system” like the “third party contractor” I hear about when I make a complaint to a company?
Thanks, Tom.
jeez, Karen...the same thing happened to me. I thought for awhile it might be a sign of some kind for me to start working. but I sat down and waited for it to pass. what I need to be writing doesn't belong in Substack. or at least, I don't think so.
and because it's you and I changed my avatar, it's a picture from 1976 or '7. a sort of quasi-publicity shot of the team (that's David Forman at the piano) working on something or other. I'm not sure who took it. if I knew I'd be using it as my avatar well into the next century, I might have arranged to be skinnier. but I had swell hair.
Ah, pardon me, David. The woman is David Forman, so much for my attention to your words. As for your 'eyes', they were mostly hidden behind the glasses brightened by the light.
Bowing out,
F.
Hi David. Your reply was to me, yet, you addressed 'Karen'. Is this confusion a result of, perhaps, a wandering focus on your part; the wish to communicate with Karen and taking the the wrong route by mistake? There is something familiar about it to me; a Davidism?
Yes, you had a bush of lively, dark hair and bright eyes as a younger man with a generous layer of flesh. You mention nothing about the woman.
That's enough of David for a while.
You and Tom are another story for, perhaps, another day.
I have 3 subscribers to my nonexistant substack site.
From what I've been able to suss out about that subscribe thing, if you don't have a Substack, it acts like a 'contingency'. If you ever start one, those 'subscriptions' will automatically kick in. I have a couple of 'subscribers' and no newsletter. The subscribers are a couple of folks I interact with in a couple of different comment sections. I suspect some people hit the 'subscribe button' thinking that means they can follow that individual in 'Notes', which it does not. That is a separate icon hidden under a draw down.
I'm guessing Substack set things up like this to try to spur more individuals to start a publication of their own. Can't really think of any other reason.
That's because you found the right one! :-)
Same here.🤣
I had subscribers before substack started its invasion on me (Putinysk, I think) The number?
Who cares, I'm not going there to look.
Maybe they’re the same ones that subscribe to Dave Fake News😊
Support@substack.com. But they may not accept messages from non-subscribers. I dunno.
Thanks, Mim. I'm here and on LFAA because I'm a subscriber, just don't want to start a substack. I have tried Support@substack.com a number of times and will try again. If it works this time, I will be grateful to you.
I too am simply a reader, not an author on Substack.
Thank you, Mim. I'll let you know if there is success.
Am I going to get a social security check on 6/2? My SNAP benefits? Am I going to have to raid and drain my investment account to cover my expenses for dog knows how long? These people are just so insolent, ignorant and mean. Oh, and you forgot Paul Ryan and his fervent wish to kick disabled people (like me) to the curb.
I agree with Karen RN below regarding the 14th amendment. The United States has a debt obligation which protects everyone in the US including the dumba**** who have taken a 4 vote control of the house and of mccarthy's tiny balls. What a cabal...in the house (there's actually 147 there who believe djt won and actually the 14th should require them to never hold public office again, but that isn't going to happen)...the other cabal is of course scotus. Frankly once this debacle has been resolved there must be action taken to remove this whole "debt ceiling" situation out of the hands of the congress. It can also not be in the hands of the president or the courts. The issue for me at least is that as long as all kinds of tax cuts are designed to enrich only a small part of the population the debt situation will continue to increase. When the speaker comes saying "no taxes just cuts", which are essentially libertarian politics, solving debt becomes one party saying to the 99.9 percent of the population, "If you can't pay for it (whatever it might be - food, health care, education, clean water, retirement, wounds left from wars, etc.) you're out of luck. We're dealing with an entrenched oligarchy who will never get enough to feel satisfied. Their lobby industry infest the halls of agencies and congressional offices like the blood suckers they are. The gop has pandered to this small group for generations. Some dems have done the same. Clinton for one. But, it does not have to be this way. For this situation to change, however, we the people must get smarter and more savvy about how the economy actually works and where the money is going. We must do more than gripe that's for sure. I mean, how can mccarthy keep getting elected? And some of the other guys and gals as well. It is ridiculous that people have elected the very folks who are pointing guns at our heads. And djt says let it crash. Of course. Chaos and confusion is the main tactic listed in the fascist handbook. It undergirds all the other steps to political takeover. Keep everyone off balance, frightened, and angry. Resistance is smarter than that, I hope. Biden and his administration must be stronger in their resistance and more creative. If they make the argument compelling enough the sane people in our midst, and there are still some, will respond.
We should go back and codify "The Gephardt Rule," which was that Congress passing a budget was deemed to have raised the debt ceiling to cover the new obligations.
Absolutely
Well put. And what Biden doesn't understand is that he has every right to argue that to violate the pertinent clause of the 14th Amendment is to commit treason, and he has the right to respond to that.
What he SHOULD do is have them mint the coin.