The Greatest Generation. They rose to the challenges. They believed in democracy and the Constitution. THEY were patriots. Fast forward to the people who brought you Jan. 6: Subversive traitors who insist that, because they say something is so, it’s so. . . When surrounded by their fellow bullies and financed by billionaires.
And on another part of the “field” David McCampbell and Roy Rushing off the Essex intercepted a gaggle of 40 Japanese planes. McCambell shot down nine, setting the American record for kills in a single sortie. Rushing got six.
True courage, dedication and sacrifice were shown by American sailors, soldiers, Marines and aircrews of my Dad’s generation. Excepting possibly of Korea the US has not fought a worthwhile war since WWII. Today’s military and support of our troops has died accordingly. Counting on a professional military with no conscripts leaves the rest of the country uncaring and National Leadership fighting for politics -
Wow, Such an incredible story of bravery and determination! It seems that mindset is long gone. What happened? I wish that this was taught in all American history classes. Maybe that would wake them up. Yes, they truly were "The Greatest Generation".
Great story, TC. I don't know much navy lore. Dad was Air Force ( Army Air Corp in WWII); spouse was army drafted for VN (66-67). I just returned from the 48th reunion of the 8th Air Force. We had 8 WWII vets in attendance, but several of the different groups had no one or just 1 present. My group, 351st Bomb Group had 20 with no vets. Our collective dilemma is how to get the following generations interested enough to join so that the history will stay in memory.
That's the real problem - they're all gone now. When I wrote my upcoming "Clean Sweep: VIII Fighter Command vs the Luftwaffe" (coming out next spring), I realized that none of the guys I spoke to whose stories are in my books are still here. Michael Connelly says that non-fiction authors have the magical power "to bring the dead alive," which is what I hope I have done.
It's up to folks like you and the other members of your association, and the other associations, to do your bit.
Will you contact me? Hit "reply" to any TAFM email, and it will go to me directly.
did you visit the museum in Savannah? I never have, but my dad (also 8th AF) was very excited about it. there's also a little shrine in Norwich Cathedral (which I HAVE visited).
"The US Navy quietly passed its verdict on its most famous sailor of the war in the fact that while after the war there was a Spruance class of destroyers, one of which was the USS Halsey."
Actually "the world wonders" was "padding" in the message that wasn't stripped out because the padding seemed close enough to the body of the message to be a part of it. Those words certainly got Halsey's attention!
Yeah, I know, but Halsey had a conniption when he read the message, realizing what a boner he pulled leaving the invasion covering force nearly defenseless while being snookered by the Japanese. He thought that Nimitz was ragging him (which he deserved) and was madder than hell.
Spent the rest of his life trying to live it down. Which was a little hard after he drove the fleet into two different damaging typhoons. On the second, he and his buddy McCain tried to pin the problem on Jocko Clark, who took a Court Martial to prove his innocence. His flag lieutenant, one Barney Rosenberg, a top New York lawyer, defended him, and told him if he was going to save him he would have to cross-examine Halsey "closely." A young "90-day wonder" Lt(jg) who was trying to decide whether to go to law school after the war or pursue his dream of writing, managed to get in the courtroom as an observer that day. You can read the kind of cross Halsey got in "The Caine Mutiny," where top New York lawyer Barney Rosenberg cross-examines Captain Queeg. The only thing that saved Halsey after that was Nimitz saying he couldn't "damage national morale" by sacking Halsey and informing Spruance he was going to take control of the fleet a little earlier before the invasion.
One correction: it was the Yamashiro that was sunk by gunfire from the old Navy battleships, not the Kirishima; Kirishima was sunk earlier at Guadalcanal by the USS Washington. Fuso went down in the Strait from torpedoes launched from MTBs.
Also, I read in Hornfischer's book that one of the torpedoes launched by the Johnston struck Chokai on the stern, not sinking her, but crippling her enough to get finished off by airplanes from TF34, once they got back from Bill Halsey's Light Brigade charge. It's also worth noting that the spread from Heerman compelled the Yamato's captain to steer the ship to "comb the wakes," but away from the battle, leaving Kurita out of touch for 10 minutes.
Chokai was the one hit by White Plains in her torpedo stowage and blew up.
The fast carriers did not sink any of the Center Force after the battle.
The torpedo launches did force the Japanese fleet apart, which is one reason Kurita decided to turn away since he didn't believe he had time to reorganize before the battleships of the Third Fleet appeared over the horizon.
You provide some wonderful details about Leyte that I have never read before. We kids first learned about this and other WWII actions every Sunday afternoon in (I think) 1953, when the documentary series "Victory at Sea" came on. Our father gave commentary and background information when appropriate.
I lived for Victory at Sea. In those days before DVRs if you missed it it was gone. When we would visit my grandparents in Colorado Springs I watched the time like a hawk, and really got pissy when there was delay by my mother (who didn't watch the show and I came to understand did this deliberately) to get on the road and get back home in time to see the show. I went through two records of the music and still play it nowadays when writing a book.
I was 6-7 years old at the time. A few years ago I downloaded the Robert Russell Bennett "Victory at Sea" album; playing that music takes me back to those days! Dad cleared the schedule for those broadcasts, and I don't think we missed any. He was home after two Korea tours, and was flying a desk at BuAer in DC, working in the fighter design unit.
A great recounting of an incredible story, thanks TC. If anyone is interested in more detail from one perspective, Edwin P. Hoyt's 'The Men of the Gambier Bay' is a really good book.
I have to disagree. Hoyt's books are at best hackery. The Gambier Bay Association had a little competition to find their biographer. The choice came down to Hoyt and author Barrett Tillman; they chose Hoyt, but Tillman proved since that he was who they should have chosen.
When I was researching "Fabled Fifteen" and then "Pacific Thunder" (which puts Air Group 15's achievements in the larger context), I had occasion to consult Hoyt's books on Gambier Bay and Air Group 15 ("McCampbell's Heroes"). The man had access to first person accounts because so many were still alive and the groups had chosen him, so he had cooperation - and he blew it! "Heroes" was perhaps the worst-written, worst-edited book I have ever run across. Designations of aircraft change without reason, correct spelling of names drifts like a leaf on the flood tide, back and forth; facts change!
The Gambier Association and Air Group Fiftten Association mainly chose him due to his book on Leyte Gulf, which I also consulted; there is actual plagiarism in that! Of Samuel Eliot Morrison, no less!Plus he even accepted the Navy coverup report on Halsey's "Battle of Bull's Run."
Unfortunately, there was virtually no competition when he wrote his first stuff and "got a reputation;" like the execrable Martin Caidin, he could play fast and loose with everything and there was no one to say "Hey! What is this!", and then his "reputation" overpowered authors like Barrett Tillman (caveat emptor: one of my best friends) who were the cutting edge of the new generation of military historians who would pay attention and get things right at the time still considered "newcomers."
That the opportunities guys like Hoyt and Caidin had were squandered by such talentless hacks makes me grind my teeth every time I think about it.
If you want a better account of both Gambier Bay and Air Group Fifteen, read my two books above. There is also an excellent book on Samuel B. Roberts, "For Crew And Country," which brings the ship and her men alive really nicely.
Thanks for the context TC. I got the Hoyt book from my ex-wife's uncle who was one of the survivors and didn't question the background. I had little interest in the rest of Hoyt's work and wasn't really aware that he had a body of work at all.
The Greatest Generation. They rose to the challenges. They believed in democracy and the Constitution. THEY were patriots. Fast forward to the people who brought you Jan. 6: Subversive traitors who insist that, because they say something is so, it’s so. . . When surrounded by their fellow bullies and financed by billionaires.
And on another part of the “field” David McCampbell and Roy Rushing off the Essex intercepted a gaggle of 40 Japanese planes. McCambell shot down nine, setting the American record for kills in a single sortie. Rushing got six.
True courage, dedication and sacrifice were shown by American sailors, soldiers, Marines and aircrews of my Dad’s generation. Excepting possibly of Korea the US has not fought a worthwhile war since WWII. Today’s military and support of our troops has died accordingly. Counting on a professional military with no conscripts leaves the rest of the country uncaring and National Leadership fighting for politics -
Absolutely right.
Wow, Such an incredible story of bravery and determination! It seems that mindset is long gone. What happened? I wish that this was taught in all American history classes. Maybe that would wake them up. Yes, they truly were "The Greatest Generation".
Great story, TC. I don't know much navy lore. Dad was Air Force ( Army Air Corp in WWII); spouse was army drafted for VN (66-67). I just returned from the 48th reunion of the 8th Air Force. We had 8 WWII vets in attendance, but several of the different groups had no one or just 1 present. My group, 351st Bomb Group had 20 with no vets. Our collective dilemma is how to get the following generations interested enough to join so that the history will stay in memory.
That's the real problem - they're all gone now. When I wrote my upcoming "Clean Sweep: VIII Fighter Command vs the Luftwaffe" (coming out next spring), I realized that none of the guys I spoke to whose stories are in my books are still here. Michael Connelly says that non-fiction authors have the magical power "to bring the dead alive," which is what I hope I have done.
It's up to folks like you and the other members of your association, and the other associations, to do your bit.
Will you contact me? Hit "reply" to any TAFM email, and it will go to me directly.
With any luck, you received my email.
did you visit the museum in Savannah? I never have, but my dad (also 8th AF) was very excited about it. there's also a little shrine in Norwich Cathedral (which I HAVE visited).
Yes I have. Last year's reunion was in Savannah. The 351st pays homage there every year....I have yet to make that event.
I've sent something.....
"The US Navy quietly passed its verdict on its most famous sailor of the war in the fact that while after the war there was a Spruance class of destroyers, one of which was the USS Halsey."
Priceless.
You are at your best with these accounts! TY
Wow.
Absolutely a sizzlin’ historical account. I sent this to President Biden and the First Lady and our Sec’y of Defense.
Where is, repeat, where is Task Force 34? The world wonders.
Actually "the world wonders" was "padding" in the message that wasn't stripped out because the padding seemed close enough to the body of the message to be a part of it. Those words certainly got Halsey's attention!
Yeah, I know, but Halsey had a conniption when he read the message, realizing what a boner he pulled leaving the invasion covering force nearly defenseless while being snookered by the Japanese. He thought that Nimitz was ragging him (which he deserved) and was madder than hell.
Spent the rest of his life trying to live it down. Which was a little hard after he drove the fleet into two different damaging typhoons. On the second, he and his buddy McCain tried to pin the problem on Jocko Clark, who took a Court Martial to prove his innocence. His flag lieutenant, one Barney Rosenberg, a top New York lawyer, defended him, and told him if he was going to save him he would have to cross-examine Halsey "closely." A young "90-day wonder" Lt(jg) who was trying to decide whether to go to law school after the war or pursue his dream of writing, managed to get in the courtroom as an observer that day. You can read the kind of cross Halsey got in "The Caine Mutiny," where top New York lawyer Barney Rosenberg cross-examines Captain Queeg. The only thing that saved Halsey after that was Nimitz saying he couldn't "damage national morale" by sacking Halsey and informing Spruance he was going to take control of the fleet a little earlier before the invasion.
One correction: it was the Yamashiro that was sunk by gunfire from the old Navy battleships, not the Kirishima; Kirishima was sunk earlier at Guadalcanal by the USS Washington. Fuso went down in the Strait from torpedoes launched from MTBs.
Also, I read in Hornfischer's book that one of the torpedoes launched by the Johnston struck Chokai on the stern, not sinking her, but crippling her enough to get finished off by airplanes from TF34, once they got back from Bill Halsey's Light Brigade charge. It's also worth noting that the spread from Heerman compelled the Yamato's captain to steer the ship to "comb the wakes," but away from the battle, leaving Kurita out of touch for 10 minutes.
Correction made, thanks.
Chokai was the one hit by White Plains in her torpedo stowage and blew up.
The fast carriers did not sink any of the Center Force after the battle.
The torpedo launches did force the Japanese fleet apart, which is one reason Kurita decided to turn away since he didn't believe he had time to reorganize before the battleships of the Third Fleet appeared over the horizon.
OK. I was working from memory because I'm in Bogota presently and don't have references handy. At least I remembered the Yamashiro correctly!
You provide some wonderful details about Leyte that I have never read before. We kids first learned about this and other WWII actions every Sunday afternoon in (I think) 1953, when the documentary series "Victory at Sea" came on. Our father gave commentary and background information when appropriate.
I lived for Victory at Sea. In those days before DVRs if you missed it it was gone. When we would visit my grandparents in Colorado Springs I watched the time like a hawk, and really got pissy when there was delay by my mother (who didn't watch the show and I came to understand did this deliberately) to get on the road and get back home in time to see the show. I went through two records of the music and still play it nowadays when writing a book.
I was 6-7 years old at the time. A few years ago I downloaded the Robert Russell Bennett "Victory at Sea" album; playing that music takes me back to those days! Dad cleared the schedule for those broadcasts, and I don't think we missed any. He was home after two Korea tours, and was flying a desk at BuAer in DC, working in the fighter design unit.
Wonderful and fascinating. Thanks for the reminder of the bravery of reservists and new recruits.
And "old salts" :-)
What a great story. Thank you! (from the daughter and sister of Navy men)
A great recounting of an incredible story, thanks TC. If anyone is interested in more detail from one perspective, Edwin P. Hoyt's 'The Men of the Gambier Bay' is a really good book.
I have to disagree. Hoyt's books are at best hackery. The Gambier Bay Association had a little competition to find their biographer. The choice came down to Hoyt and author Barrett Tillman; they chose Hoyt, but Tillman proved since that he was who they should have chosen.
When I was researching "Fabled Fifteen" and then "Pacific Thunder" (which puts Air Group 15's achievements in the larger context), I had occasion to consult Hoyt's books on Gambier Bay and Air Group 15 ("McCampbell's Heroes"). The man had access to first person accounts because so many were still alive and the groups had chosen him, so he had cooperation - and he blew it! "Heroes" was perhaps the worst-written, worst-edited book I have ever run across. Designations of aircraft change without reason, correct spelling of names drifts like a leaf on the flood tide, back and forth; facts change!
The Gambier Association and Air Group Fiftten Association mainly chose him due to his book on Leyte Gulf, which I also consulted; there is actual plagiarism in that! Of Samuel Eliot Morrison, no less!Plus he even accepted the Navy coverup report on Halsey's "Battle of Bull's Run."
Unfortunately, there was virtually no competition when he wrote his first stuff and "got a reputation;" like the execrable Martin Caidin, he could play fast and loose with everything and there was no one to say "Hey! What is this!", and then his "reputation" overpowered authors like Barrett Tillman (caveat emptor: one of my best friends) who were the cutting edge of the new generation of military historians who would pay attention and get things right at the time still considered "newcomers."
That the opportunities guys like Hoyt and Caidin had were squandered by such talentless hacks makes me grind my teeth every time I think about it.
If you want a better account of both Gambier Bay and Air Group Fifteen, read my two books above. There is also an excellent book on Samuel B. Roberts, "For Crew And Country," which brings the ship and her men alive really nicely.
Thanks for the context TC. I got the Hoyt book from my ex-wife's uncle who was one of the survivors and didn't question the background. I had little interest in the rest of Hoyt's work and wasn't really aware that he had a body of work at all.
That's how his "reputation" got made.
Sounds like he was just ahead of his time, he'd have fit in well in today's journalistic world.
😣