I pray they sequester the jury. Even if they do, I really don't feel that they'll ever be safe again. At least they will be able to feel a little safe during the trial.
... Ah come on, who am I kidding? Are there sleeping accommodations within the courthouse building? How will they enter the courtroom each day? With bags over their heads?
you're forgetting the Secret Service...a bunch of real guys who want nothing better than to hang out in a shitty jail and keep TFF from getting raped. like that would EVER happen. and isolating folks from possible danger is one of the few things NYC prisons are pretty good at.
just sort of parenthetically, one of my best friends (in fact, my work wife) did counseling at Rikers for more than twenty years and said there was nothing especially wrong with the place (she says that the medical and mental health needs of inmates was very professional). that was when NYC was directly in charge and I think we all know where this is going...PRIVITIZATION. it took less than six months for everything to go to shit.
the amazing thing about this trial (which hasn't even started yet) is the degree to which it lowers the bar vis-a-vis TFF's behavior. that bar is at least halfway to China. it was already on the floor in 2015.
I have a feeling that when this matter is "discussed" on Tuesday, this judge (who grew up a few blocks from here I'm sitting) is going to be plenty pissed.
and the Gettysburg whatever-it-was might be TFF's strongest bid for immortality. WOW.
It's all part of tearing down and destroying, Trump's forte. (Remember, he's the kid who would have wantonly stomped down another kid's sandcastle.) His ilk apparently considers the justice system just another part of the administrative state that needs to go, except when it metes out sentences to people of color and the poor.
I suspect that none of us can even imagine what craziness will happen in the next few weeks. I have faith in Judge Merchan to be fair and to maintain control, but a cornered, rabid animal is dangerous and unpredictable. I hope everyone involved will stay safe.
Merchan has already not done a good job. Simply declaring the jurors "anonymous" didn't work. He could have had all the information on the witnesses written, so the press wouldn't hear that background info, he could have included an order to the press (which he now has, kinda/sorta) not to publish the information by including that information in his original order. He is waiting FIVE MORE DAYS to hold a hearing on Trump repeatedly breaking the gag order, giving him the weekend to violate it more times. Judge Merchan - as any other judge - has no fucking clue what they're up against because there has never been a defendant like Trump, who doesn't respond to disciplinary orders until they inflict several million dollars of damage on him (he's not defaming E. Jean Carroll now, with a $91 million bond hanging over his head). The only thing that will keep him under control during this trial is imprisonment. And that is what he is angling for with all this, so he can be a real "victim," a "martyr" to his shitforbrains believers.
I'd love to see Merchan come down hard, fine him, humiliate him, treat him like the child he is, throw him in jail. But, on the other hand, I think he's being very cautious, making sure that this verdict is appeal-proof. Of course, I'm no legal expert.
Excellent summary TC. Andrew Weissmann has weighed in on "... repost by others.".
Per Andrew:
1. Factually, tffg's act was not a "repost", nor was it a "forward". Even if Snore's conduct was one of those acts such behavior is violation of the Court's Order. One of Snore's contumacious agents physically typed in the words of what amounted to an attack on a potential Juror.
2. Recap, the Judge has barred any comments about jurors, potential alternates, excused Jurors. full stop.
Time for isolation and/or incarceration within the Courthouse itself like any other Defendant who has violated the Gag Order in double digits.
Correct.Jeanne, a bald headed, orange pancake make-up guy from Queens who has a phobia of being outside in the rain where his macabre facade would melt away like the Wicked Witch of the East in Technicolor.
I only hope the Nodfather and his minions don't succeed in scaring any of the impaneled jurors and the alternates into begging off before the trial begins. Justice has been delayed far too long.
I had a long time friend. The two of us would travel together and give seminars in Europe. Whenever the stress of a situation over which he had no control would overwhelm my friend he would fall into a deep sleep.
Once we were being driven over a winding mountain road with steep cliffs on his shotgun side. Our host and driver was speeding and we did not know him well. My friend went to sleep for the rest of the hour long ordeal and woke up when the car finally came to a halt at our destination. He was a man who refused to show any fear or weakness.
I wonder if Donald has the same defense mechanism when situations become too much for him.
This is fascinating -- but it seems to me that your friend *was* "show[ing] any fear or weakness" by falling asleep. He couldn't get out of the car, so he showed his fear by checking out mentally.
Yes -- and I've also heard variations on this from many sexual abuse survivors over the years: "If I close my eyes and pretend to be somewhere else, this isn't really happening."
Trying to think "big picture" here -- and yes, it's hard -- but I'm seriously concerned that the legal system is having such a hard time dealing with a rich defendant who won't play by the rules. Many of the "rules," it seems, are actually conventions, which only work when all parties respect them. The Trump party (which apparently includes the New York Post) flouts them at every opportunity and often, as with the so-called "gag orders," gets away with it.
Trump may well be unique *for now*, but his example is sure to inspire others. And it's not hard to imagine any attempt to crack down on these high-level scofflaws having unforeseen negative effects on legitimate speech and behavior.
Really? Reading the Federalist Papers, esp. Hamilton's, I don't get the impression that they were especially idealistic, even about men of their own class. And those checks and balances weren't instituted because they expected any of the three branches to be exemplary.
Individual self-discipline + adherence to group norms. We do tend to take our cues from the group. Unfortunately, when the whole group is off the rails, you get Trumpism and all sorts of cults. Also, in milder forms, groupthink. "The best and the brightest," for instance.
I’ve been on several juries. Two were sort of normal. One made me crazy. Eight people came to a decision that I disagreed with. I took a magazine and told them that I would sit there til hell froze over before I agreed with them. After reading and listening to their blather, they all came around, although one person said she just wanted to go home. After the verdict was announced, the judge came in and said that we did such a good job. The man had threatened several people in the courtroom and had to be restrained. We didn’t know that. The facts won, but the reasons some gave for their position were totally irrelevant. Sort of scared me.
This trial is just one big international psychodrama. Trump is taking delight and solace in that fact because he's so perverse. He's certainly secured his place in history, now, hasn't he?
I had a fantastical dream last night that he was put into a special "room" with one-way glass, where he could see and hear everything in the courtroom but would be isolated and unseen and unable to communicate with anyone via his cell phone.
Blanche tried to get the
names of the first 3
witnesses and the prosecutor
said no way, due to Trump's
Truth Social posts. Then
Blanche tried to make a deal
they'd keep Trump from
posting.🤣 No deal. Then he
tried, just tell me and I'll keep
them secret. No deal and
Merchan agreed. In other
words, we don't trust any of
you.
Wondering if they'll have to
sequester the jury for their
protection? With NYPost
doing their dirty work, none
of these people, or their
families will be safe till this is.
over.
I pray they sequester the jury. Even if they do, I really don't feel that they'll ever be safe again. At least they will be able to feel a little safe during the trial.
... Ah come on, who am I kidding? Are there sleeping accommodations within the courthouse building? How will they enter the courtroom each day? With bags over their heads?
Rupert’s N Y Post is just Fox in print.
The judge needs to put him in jail with a cellmate who is sexually frustrated.
LOL!!! Love it!!!
you're forgetting the Secret Service...a bunch of real guys who want nothing better than to hang out in a shitty jail and keep TFF from getting raped. like that would EVER happen. and isolating folks from possible danger is one of the few things NYC prisons are pretty good at.
just sort of parenthetically, one of my best friends (in fact, my work wife) did counseling at Rikers for more than twenty years and said there was nothing especially wrong with the place (she says that the medical and mental health needs of inmates was very professional). that was when NYC was directly in charge and I think we all know where this is going...PRIVITIZATION. it took less than six months for everything to go to shit.
the amazing thing about this trial (which hasn't even started yet) is the degree to which it lowers the bar vis-a-vis TFF's behavior. that bar is at least halfway to China. it was already on the floor in 2015.
I have a feeling that when this matter is "discussed" on Tuesday, this judge (who grew up a few blocks from here I'm sitting) is going to be plenty pissed.
and the Gettysburg whatever-it-was might be TFF's strongest bid for immortality. WOW.
Rape jokes aren't funny even when the victim is someone like Trump.
I have the sickening feeling this man will never face true consequences. The manipulation of our systems is unbelievable.
Tell yourself "It's always darkest just before dawn."
I am hoping he blows a gasket upon hearing testimony from erstwhile "loyalists", and it can't possibly come soon enough.
It's all part of tearing down and destroying, Trump's forte. (Remember, he's the kid who would have wantonly stomped down another kid's sandcastle.) His ilk apparently considers the justice system just another part of the administrative state that needs to go, except when it metes out sentences to people of color and the poor.
Thank You, TC.
It has shocked me. Proof that money is the dividing line.
I suspect that none of us can even imagine what craziness will happen in the next few weeks. I have faith in Judge Merchan to be fair and to maintain control, but a cornered, rabid animal is dangerous and unpredictable. I hope everyone involved will stay safe.
Merchan has already not done a good job. Simply declaring the jurors "anonymous" didn't work. He could have had all the information on the witnesses written, so the press wouldn't hear that background info, he could have included an order to the press (which he now has, kinda/sorta) not to publish the information by including that information in his original order. He is waiting FIVE MORE DAYS to hold a hearing on Trump repeatedly breaking the gag order, giving him the weekend to violate it more times. Judge Merchan - as any other judge - has no fucking clue what they're up against because there has never been a defendant like Trump, who doesn't respond to disciplinary orders until they inflict several million dollars of damage on him (he's not defaming E. Jean Carroll now, with a $91 million bond hanging over his head). The only thing that will keep him under control during this trial is imprisonment. And that is what he is angling for with all this, so he can be a real "victim," a "martyr" to his shitforbrains believers.
I'd love to see Merchan come down hard, fine him, humiliate him, treat him like the child he is, throw him in jail. But, on the other hand, I think he's being very cautious, making sure that this verdict is appeal-proof. Of course, I'm no legal expert.
For what it's worth TC, I think you are right on the money on all of it.
Excellent summary TC. Andrew Weissmann has weighed in on "... repost by others.".
Per Andrew:
1. Factually, tffg's act was not a "repost", nor was it a "forward". Even if Snore's conduct was one of those acts such behavior is violation of the Court's Order. One of Snore's contumacious agents physically typed in the words of what amounted to an attack on a potential Juror.
2. Recap, the Judge has barred any comments about jurors, potential alternates, excused Jurors. full stop.
Time for isolation and/or incarceration within the Courthouse itself like any other Defendant who has violated the Gag Order in double digits.
Ricker's Island for 30 days with a "prison haircut" to deal with the possible public health problems from whatever icky bugs live in that thing.
I needed that laugh this morning. Thanks TC.
Then we would really see the baldness he's trying to cover up.
Correct.Jeanne, a bald headed, orange pancake make-up guy from Queens who has a phobia of being outside in the rain where his macabre facade would melt away like the Wicked Witch of the East in Technicolor.
Yes, to isolation. Trump having to be alone with himself would be more punishing than anything I can think of.
I know people like that, more than I imagined
I only hope the Nodfather and his minions don't succeed in scaring any of the impaneled jurors and the alternates into begging off before the trial begins. Justice has been delayed far too long.
Nodfather - good!!
I stole it. Fitting, doncha think?
It's definitely good - it's in my files now.
I'm honored!
I had a long time friend. The two of us would travel together and give seminars in Europe. Whenever the stress of a situation over which he had no control would overwhelm my friend he would fall into a deep sleep.
Once we were being driven over a winding mountain road with steep cliffs on his shotgun side. Our host and driver was speeding and we did not know him well. My friend went to sleep for the rest of the hour long ordeal and woke up when the car finally came to a halt at our destination. He was a man who refused to show any fear or weakness.
I wonder if Donald has the same defense mechanism when situations become too much for him.
This is fascinating -- but it seems to me that your friend *was* "show[ing] any fear or weakness" by falling asleep. He couldn't get out of the car, so he showed his fear by checking out mentally.
Maybe it’s like when we were children holding the idea that if we close our eyes nobody can see us. (Or our fear) haha.
Yes -- and I've also heard variations on this from many sexual abuse survivors over the years: "If I close my eyes and pretend to be somewhere else, this isn't really happening."
Trying to think "big picture" here -- and yes, it's hard -- but I'm seriously concerned that the legal system is having such a hard time dealing with a rich defendant who won't play by the rules. Many of the "rules," it seems, are actually conventions, which only work when all parties respect them. The Trump party (which apparently includes the New York Post) flouts them at every opportunity and often, as with the so-called "gag orders," gets away with it.
Trump may well be unique *for now*, but his example is sure to inspire others. And it's not hard to imagine any attempt to crack down on these high-level scofflaws having unforeseen negative effects on legitimate speech and behavior.
Trump has exposed the fatal flaw in our system of government. We expect only decent people will pursue public power. The Founders were too idealistic.
Really? Reading the Federalist Papers, esp. Hamilton's, I don't get the impression that they were especially idealistic, even about men of their own class. And those checks and balances weren't instituted because they expected any of the three branches to be exemplary.
Yes, but so much of the system is determined by individual self-discipline, something we are in short supply of nowadays.
Individual self-discipline + adherence to group norms. We do tend to take our cues from the group. Unfortunately, when the whole group is off the rails, you get Trumpism and all sorts of cults. Also, in milder forms, groupthink. "The best and the brightest," for instance.
I’ve been on several juries. Two were sort of normal. One made me crazy. Eight people came to a decision that I disagreed with. I took a magazine and told them that I would sit there til hell froze over before I agreed with them. After reading and listening to their blather, they all came around, although one person said she just wanted to go home. After the verdict was announced, the judge came in and said that we did such a good job. The man had threatened several people in the courtroom and had to be restrained. We didn’t know that. The facts won, but the reasons some gave for their position were totally irrelevant. Sort of scared me.
I gather from (reluctantly) watching clips of Jesse Waters that it is "liberal bias" to say "I don't think anyone is above the law."
This trial is just one big international psychodrama. Trump is taking delight and solace in that fact because he's so perverse. He's certainly secured his place in history, now, hasn't he?
All publicity is good publicity
It is not a hush money trial. There's no law against paying someone not to speak about a legal act. It is a criminal fraud trial FFS!
I had a fantastical dream last night that he was put into a special "room" with one-way glass, where he could see and hear everything in the courtroom but would be isolated and unseen and unable to communicate with anyone via his cell phone.
Then we wouldn’t have to see his ugly mug. Winner