Yesterday, the news was that President Biden’s senior aides have been “conducting a vigorous internal debate” as to whether Biden should issue preemptive pardons to current and former public officials who could become targets for Donald Trump’s desire for vengeance against those he believes thwarted him, following his return to the White House.
Yes!Let’s pardon them all!All in Trump’s crosshairs.Let’s include Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger.They are saying that this is” unprecedented”. I’ll tell you what is unprecedented is a president-elect having a hit-list pre-inauguration.What is unprecedented is having a convicted felon calling the shots and is trying to destroy our democracy before he takes office.He is an enemy of the rule of law and all that we hold dear.
Liz, Adam, Eric & other Congressional Reps have Article 1, Section 6, clause 1 immunity from Civil suits, arrest & even questioning for legislative actions. No "debate" there but, the threat of time & life consuming actions to fight back plus costs hurt. Go Fund Them?
Private citizens , police personnel, court personnel, legislative aides & witnesses who testified under oath at a legal proceeding have some robust defenses too but, may need more protection such as Dr. Fauci. Use existing or older liability policies at the time of the
"occurrence" (you want the free attorney) and/or pro bono work by experienced litigators. Defend & indemnify each Target.
Of course, the best defense Is an aggressive offense.
I'm glad that Liz, Adam, Eric and others in Congress have some protection, but agree with you that having their time and money go to B.S. accusations is terrible enough.
It will forever blow my mind that Dr. Fauci, who put himself in harm's way for years and years to find a treatment for AIDS, has ANYTHING to worry about in his old age. Damn RFK, Jr., among others!
That's right. Steal Patel's thunder, neuter his revenge lust, and make him irrelevant, the latter of which is the worst thing that can happen to the attention hos Trump has been nominating. Without political opponents to target, Patel will have to go after actual crooks, liars, and murderers. Make Patel want to return to Fox and to writing children's books that kids won't read. When you think about it, Trump essentially pardoned all his political cronies when he left office in 2021. Joe has a chance to give Trump a finger to remember as he gets in the car to head to Wilmington.
Because there is no precedent to having a convicted felon be our president, there is no precedent about how we should deal with this horrific situation.Given that,Biden needs to go into uncharted territory and pardon ALL who are in line to be prosecuted or worse with Trumps Retribution Tour.Maybe the entire Democratic member roster needs to be pardoned considering the evilness of Trump and maga.
Worse than the crimes he has been convicted of are the crimes he has been indicted for. Open and shut was the classified documents case which his girl Aileen fixed for him. Sponsoring the J6 and the phony elector slates, too.
They have the imagination, or just the Hitler playbook. Dems still novices at hardball?…. Believe them when they tell you who they are, or regret it. I already do.
Using the web form at the White House (https://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/), and knowing full well that all such communications are archived by law, I sent the following message:
On the topic of whether to offer blanket pardons to the many, many people who are in Trump's -- and Kash Patel's -- crosshairs, I think it is absolutely necessary to offer those pardons.
Once offered, individuals might choose to refuse to accept a pardon. But if they are never offered a pardon, they are sitting ducks for a President one of whose major campaign promises was *retribution.*
Pay no attention to people who say that issuing a pardon will embolden Trump to claim that he is right to attack them. Issue the pardons with clear reference to Trump's and Patel's unhinged claims.
"Being the target of an FBI investigation, even if it leads nowhere, can cost the target hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal bills, upend families, end careers and lead to federal charges, like lying to a federal agent, that are all but unrelated to the original investigation."
Please offer pardons to an extensive list of so-called "enemies" of Trump. Kash Patel's 2023 book "Government Gangsters: The Deep State, the Truth, and the Battle for our Democracy" includes one enemies list.
Please protect these good people from that evil man.
Good. Everyone should go add their support for pardons now, as well as using this link among others to promote Biden requiring the ERA be formally posted by the Archives as per Hubbell's Substack of a few days ago.
No we do not; Dems do possess ruthlessness, but I have to admit it is a recessive gene...I think Trump's outrageousness will bring Dem ruthlessness to the fore--but not, I must suppose, without plenty of pearl clutching and hand-wringing on the part of the remaining Dem apologists.
If Trump can tell voters he has nothing to do with Project 2025, then essentially say Just Kidding with his Cabinet picks, then Biden can pardon anyone and everyone he wants.
Just pardon anyone on the enemies list. Pardon non- violent, non-trafficking drug convictions. Pardon convictions for just not being white. Get rid of as many bullshit prison sentences as possible. We incarcerate too many people for stupid reasons. If that scares you, don't let it. No other Western democracy has our obsession with imprisonment.
Maybe secession is in order.I will never abide with the hatred of maga and they more than likely view me as” woke” whatever the fuck that is.I want to be free to live and love.If that makes me” woke” so be it.I’d rather be woke than unconscious
Thanks for update! I didn’t get the memo although I’m not on social media.Currently paying 10$/month for DD via the w-site ( more expensive to run than Substack) which IMO well worth it. I encourage any who can afford to support Democracy Docket’s. future Substack.Sharing from Steve Beschloss’ post today. Marc Elias is on the “retribution list” as is Olivia Troye…true patriots!
Here’s how Elias put it on MSNBC’s Deadline White House with Nicolle Wallace on Wednesday, referencing Patel’s attention:
Right now there are a lot of people who are quietly scared and there are a lot of people who are publicly scared. There are a lot of people engaging in anticipatory obedience…I’m proud of the fact that I stand up for democracy and that I win. And we need everyone to be a little bit courageous. It’s OK to be scared. It’s OK to be nervous. I’m nervous, I’m scared at some level. But you know, everyone needs to be a happy warrior in this fight. Everyone needs to have a little bit of courage in this fight.
Let's all remember one thing: the guys who landed on Omaha Beach and made it to the seawall were *terrified* - in the words of one of them I knew "I was so scared I couldn't think." And yet they did that. And then they gathered their courage despite their fear and jumped over that seawall and took the heights. And then they went on to defeat Hitler. And they were scared the whole way.
I’ve said it so many times and as many since the election. Elias states it as does TC referring to soldiers at Omaha beach landing. It….is…OK….to be scared. That is as natural a reflex in our bodies as can be experienced. It heightens our senses and prepares us for fight or flight to keep us safe actually. Here’s what I add to every person I speak to of this.
“Just do not be afraid.” That is the quality that moves us ahead in times of uncertainty and duress. Even being under attack. It is the stuff of courage.
When I think of the scum planning to take over our democracy, I always say to myself. Look at those scurrying rats. They are so afraid.”
Pardon them all. As I said somewhere else, if someone like Schiff thinks the justice department under Trump will prevent groundless retribution, they can put their pardon where their belief is and refuse one for themselves although I believe they had better not. If just being named and doxed to draw stochastic violence to someone and their families can ruin their life, being listed by Trump and his followers as targets of investigation, being investigated, and retaining a lawyer can be ruinous even if charges never materialize. Given enough time and their previous record with attempting to generate false evidence, it's likely they will come up with, to closely paraphrase Patel "federal or civil, we'll worry about that later" charges.
I also believe there is a further point to a dramatic protective gesture such as broadly drawn and broadly provided pardons along with a clear statement that these pardons in no way imply the recipients engaged in criminal behavior but are intended to protect them from potential future injustice should they need it and that if they never do then no harm done. It is time Ds began to get our messages out in ways that draw media attention, and the furor inevitable from such a pardon - the absolute indignation at such implications - would draw attention to the talk of retribution in the coming administration, even on places like Fox news. Some of them might even secretly be a little jealous because we all know how quickly Trump and his sycophants turn on followers!
Remember the Rs passing a law to make it illegal for non-citizens to vote even though it was already illegal? I can't imagine Biden will provide pardons he does not fully believe necessary, but even if we fully trusted the current and future judicial system, broadly drawn and distributed pardons with clearly stated reasons would function the way they intended their law to - dramatize an issue and a position. We need to recognize this aspect of a stink, since Ds cannot move without Rs creating one, and there can be an up side if we play it right.
It is not a hypothetical threat. Anybody who doesn’t know that is a moronic fool. Do it Joe. Anybody remember Benghazi, add the Clintons and the Obamas. They will make previous harassment seem innocuous. Death is not beyond their plans.
We are in total agreement on this, Tom. I would add Jill Biden, Joe's grandchildren, any in-laws. The only person he cannot protect is himself, per the Constitution. A blanket pardon should cover all Democratic Senators and Congresspersons, ProPublica, Substack, and any other publication online or in print that advocates democracy.
Not that I think trumpscum or any 2025er will honor the pardons, but the record should show just how vile those creeps are.
Adam Schiff can scoff all he likes, but he, Jamie Raskin, Lynn Cheney, Adam Kinzinger, and all members and staff of the January 6th committee are also in danger. We have awakened the ghosts of Dracula and Frankenstein's monster with this past election and we must defend the Constitution lovers and their next of kin at all costs.
Keep in mind, however, that after they are pardoned, they are not atrisk of prosecution, therefore, if they are called to testify, like in a nonsensical congressional hearings, they cannot take the Fifth. They will have to testify. And so they will be prosecuted for lying in those hearings, whether or not they actually lied. There may not be a way to get around Trump vengeance.
Yes!Let’s pardon them all!All in Trump’s crosshairs.Let’s include Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger.They are saying that this is” unprecedented”. I’ll tell you what is unprecedented is a president-elect having a hit-list pre-inauguration.What is unprecedented is having a convicted felon calling the shots and is trying to destroy our democracy before he takes office.He is an enemy of the rule of law and all that we hold dear.
Liz, Adam, Eric & other Congressional Reps have Article 1, Section 6, clause 1 immunity from Civil suits, arrest & even questioning for legislative actions. No "debate" there but, the threat of time & life consuming actions to fight back plus costs hurt. Go Fund Them?
Private citizens , police personnel, court personnel, legislative aides & witnesses who testified under oath at a legal proceeding have some robust defenses too but, may need more protection such as Dr. Fauci. Use existing or older liability policies at the time of the
"occurrence" (you want the free attorney) and/or pro bono work by experienced litigators. Defend & indemnify each Target.
Of course, the best defense Is an aggressive offense.
An aggressive offense -- if you can afford it...
I'm glad that Liz, Adam, Eric and others in Congress have some protection, but agree with you that having their time and money go to B.S. accusations is terrible enough.
It will forever blow my mind that Dr. Fauci, who put himself in harm's way for years and years to find a treatment for AIDS, has ANYTHING to worry about in his old age. Damn RFK, Jr., among others!
That's right. Steal Patel's thunder, neuter his revenge lust, and make him irrelevant, the latter of which is the worst thing that can happen to the attention hos Trump has been nominating. Without political opponents to target, Patel will have to go after actual crooks, liars, and murderers. Make Patel want to return to Fox and to writing children's books that kids won't read. When you think about it, Trump essentially pardoned all his political cronies when he left office in 2021. Joe has a chance to give Trump a finger to remember as he gets in the car to head to Wilmington.
Because there is no precedent to having a convicted felon be our president, there is no precedent about how we should deal with this horrific situation.Given that,Biden needs to go into uncharted territory and pardon ALL who are in line to be prosecuted or worse with Trumps Retribution Tour.Maybe the entire Democratic member roster needs to be pardoned considering the evilness of Trump and maga.
Worse than the crimes he has been convicted of are the crimes he has been indicted for. Open and shut was the classified documents case which his girl Aileen fixed for him. Sponsoring the J6 and the phony elector slates, too.
If Ed Markey is WAITING for a sign that their intent is retribution, then my cat's litter is smarter than he is. Jesus!
What in hell do people need to wait for? They scream it. Print it. Post it.
Promise it.
Mr. Schiff has said he doesn't
need or want a pardon.
There's a reason your name is
on the List Senator newby. If I
were you, I'd take the pardon,
cause ya never know.
There are times he gets so damn self-righteous I just want to slap him upside the head.
He’s not the only one.
Schiff needs more imagination on what MAGA is capable of.
These are not normal times
They have the imagination, or just the Hitler playbook. Dems still novices at hardball?…. Believe them when they tell you who they are, or regret it. I already do.
Using the web form at the White House (https://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/), and knowing full well that all such communications are archived by law, I sent the following message:
On the topic of whether to offer blanket pardons to the many, many people who are in Trump's -- and Kash Patel's -- crosshairs, I think it is absolutely necessary to offer those pardons.
Once offered, individuals might choose to refuse to accept a pardon. But if they are never offered a pardon, they are sitting ducks for a President one of whose major campaign promises was *retribution.*
Pay no attention to people who say that issuing a pardon will embolden Trump to claim that he is right to attack them. Issue the pardons with clear reference to Trump's and Patel's unhinged claims.
As TCinLA says in his substack newsletter (https://tcinla757.substack.com/p/pardon-them-all):
"Being the target of an FBI investigation, even if it leads nowhere, can cost the target hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal bills, upend families, end careers and lead to federal charges, like lying to a federal agent, that are all but unrelated to the original investigation."
Please offer pardons to an extensive list of so-called "enemies" of Trump. Kash Patel's 2023 book "Government Gangsters: The Deep State, the Truth, and the Battle for our Democracy" includes one enemies list.
Please protect these good people from that evil man.
-- Bob Stromberg, Round Lake, NY
Good. Everyone should go add their support for pardons now, as well as using this link among others to promote Biden requiring the ERA be formally posted by the Archives as per Hubbell's Substack of a few days ago.
Excellent, Bob!
Yes it’s disgusting and disgraceful for Biden to be in this position because of T’s band of thugs but it could get vicious and violent.
To paraphrase wazzizname from Project 2025, it will only get violent, if the magas "want to make it so."
They expect acquiescence, Dems lack that ruthless gene.
No we do not; Dems do possess ruthlessness, but I have to admit it is a recessive gene...I think Trump's outrageousness will bring Dem ruthlessness to the fore--but not, I must suppose, without plenty of pearl clutching and hand-wringing on the part of the remaining Dem apologists.
Been waiting, watched Dems rally around W/Dickie and that was pukifying
yep, I agree.
Joe should gather up his Irish genes and take the fight to them.
Andy Borowitz had the best idea in The Borowitz Report - pardon every Democrat in the United States.....
Andy concluded with…..“Everyone but Joe and Mika. They are on their own now”
Well, yes..... Some people have made their own beds.....
They certainly did, and will have to wallow there with their own decision to kiss the orange felon’s ass.
If Trump can tell voters he has nothing to do with Project 2025, then essentially say Just Kidding with his Cabinet picks, then Biden can pardon anyone and everyone he wants.
Just pardon anyone on the enemies list. Pardon non- violent, non-trafficking drug convictions. Pardon convictions for just not being white. Get rid of as many bullshit prison sentences as possible. We incarcerate too many people for stupid reasons. If that scares you, don't let it. No other Western democracy has our obsession with imprisonment.
Disappoint those investing in more prisons.
Investors just can't seem to get a break.
Damn, I thought it was a sure thing
Then how will their private for profit prisons make all that money?
They will be funded by taxpayers of course. I will refer to them by their proper name: Concentration Camps.
Maybe secession is in order.I will never abide with the hatred of maga and they more than likely view me as” woke” whatever the fuck that is.I want to be free to live and love.If that makes me” woke” so be it.I’d rather be woke than unconscious
If you want to live on the left coast, we may form Cascadia. BC, WA, OR, and CA. We have to include BC in case their next election goes sideways.
I’m ready…
Ready to get out of Texas. Can't imagine why. 😁
Living a clue of what is to come to all…
You really have the worst elected officials. Or Floriduh. I can never decide.
Yours have been around longer though. The Bush Dynasty went on forever.
That killing of little kids in Uvalde. Unreal. What a clusterfuck LEOs.
Your governor, wow.
Now you have Musk in Austin. Too fucking funny.
Ok, I am done making fun of the great state.
Everything is bigger in TX.
Agree 100% The trio of evil is bad enough, but muskrat can only make things worse.
Breaking News! Democracy
Docket is coming to
Substack! 😁
What changed his mind?
I love Dem. Docket but it boils
down to $. I also think Marc
was getting blow back on his
slamming Substack. My
member fee to DD is $20/mo
and he has mega members.
Look what Substack can do.
Some have 2k subscribers at
$6/mo. That's a lot of money.
Many of us can’t afford $72 a year or more times x number of subscriptions.
Youre right - I already subscribe monthly to four on substack. Really cant afford to shell out more money on another.
Thanks for update! I didn’t get the memo although I’m not on social media.Currently paying 10$/month for DD via the w-site ( more expensive to run than Substack) which IMO well worth it. I encourage any who can afford to support Democracy Docket’s. future Substack.Sharing from Steve Beschloss’ post today. Marc Elias is on the “retribution list” as is Olivia Troye…true patriots!
Here’s how Elias put it on MSNBC’s Deadline White House with Nicolle Wallace on Wednesday, referencing Patel’s attention:
Right now there are a lot of people who are quietly scared and there are a lot of people who are publicly scared. There are a lot of people engaging in anticipatory obedience…I’m proud of the fact that I stand up for democracy and that I win. And we need everyone to be a little bit courageous. It’s OK to be scared. It’s OK to be nervous. I’m nervous, I’m scared at some level. But you know, everyone needs to be a happy warrior in this fight. Everyone needs to have a little bit of courage in this fight.
https://open.substack.com/pub/america/p/these-times-demand-courage?r=fqsxl&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
Let's all remember one thing: the guys who landed on Omaha Beach and made it to the seawall were *terrified* - in the words of one of them I knew "I was so scared I couldn't think." And yet they did that. And then they gathered their courage despite their fear and jumped over that seawall and took the heights. And then they went on to defeat Hitler. And they were scared the whole way.
They did it and so can we.
I’ve said it so many times and as many since the election. Elias states it as does TC referring to soldiers at Omaha beach landing. It….is…OK….to be scared. That is as natural a reflex in our bodies as can be experienced. It heightens our senses and prepares us for fight or flight to keep us safe actually. Here’s what I add to every person I speak to of this.
“Just do not be afraid.” That is the quality that moves us ahead in times of uncertainty and duress. Even being under attack. It is the stuff of courage.
When I think of the scum planning to take over our democracy, I always say to myself. Look at those scurrying rats. They are so afraid.”
Salud!
🗽💜
If you’re not scared, you live in a Fox hole
Pardon them all. As I said somewhere else, if someone like Schiff thinks the justice department under Trump will prevent groundless retribution, they can put their pardon where their belief is and refuse one for themselves although I believe they had better not. If just being named and doxed to draw stochastic violence to someone and their families can ruin their life, being listed by Trump and his followers as targets of investigation, being investigated, and retaining a lawyer can be ruinous even if charges never materialize. Given enough time and their previous record with attempting to generate false evidence, it's likely they will come up with, to closely paraphrase Patel "federal or civil, we'll worry about that later" charges.
I also believe there is a further point to a dramatic protective gesture such as broadly drawn and broadly provided pardons along with a clear statement that these pardons in no way imply the recipients engaged in criminal behavior but are intended to protect them from potential future injustice should they need it and that if they never do then no harm done. It is time Ds began to get our messages out in ways that draw media attention, and the furor inevitable from such a pardon - the absolute indignation at such implications - would draw attention to the talk of retribution in the coming administration, even on places like Fox news. Some of them might even secretly be a little jealous because we all know how quickly Trump and his sycophants turn on followers!
Remember the Rs passing a law to make it illegal for non-citizens to vote even though it was already illegal? I can't imagine Biden will provide pardons he does not fully believe necessary, but even if we fully trusted the current and future judicial system, broadly drawn and distributed pardons with clearly stated reasons would function the way they intended their law to - dramatize an issue and a position. We need to recognize this aspect of a stink, since Ds cannot move without Rs creating one, and there can be an up side if we play it right.
Hell, pardon everyone and anyone who voted Democratic.
It is not a hypothetical threat. Anybody who doesn’t know that is a moronic fool. Do it Joe. Anybody remember Benghazi, add the Clintons and the Obamas. They will make previous harassment seem innocuous. Death is not beyond their plans.
We are in total agreement on this, Tom. I would add Jill Biden, Joe's grandchildren, any in-laws. The only person he cannot protect is himself, per the Constitution. A blanket pardon should cover all Democratic Senators and Congresspersons, ProPublica, Substack, and any other publication online or in print that advocates democracy.
Not that I think trumpscum or any 2025er will honor the pardons, but the record should show just how vile those creeps are.
Adam Schiff can scoff all he likes, but he, Jamie Raskin, Lynn Cheney, Adam Kinzinger, and all members and staff of the January 6th committee are also in danger. We have awakened the ghosts of Dracula and Frankenstein's monster with this past election and we must defend the Constitution lovers and their next of kin at all costs.
Keep in mind, however, that after they are pardoned, they are not atrisk of prosecution, therefore, if they are called to testify, like in a nonsensical congressional hearings, they cannot take the Fifth. They will have to testify. And so they will be prosecuted for lying in those hearings, whether or not they actually lied. There may not be a way to get around Trump vengeance.
I don’t recall, I don’t remember, ad nauseam.