I posted this elsewhere, where people who needed to be grabbed by their lapels and shaken while they were lectured to, because they need to know this, would read it. It’s also useful for folks here: I'm old enough to remember when the State of California - composed of rich people and poor people and everyone in between - thought that higher education was a Good Thing To Invest In, regardless if everyone would use it, because it would Make Things Better For Everybody in the state, which it did.
OMG! What a great commentary on what happened to the idea that education (no matter at what level but certainly from pre-K through college - if that is where your path led) was for the PUBLIC GOOD and not a way for fat cats to get even more into their portfoliios and grow the loan industry. I too, went to college through state funded grants - I too came out of college without debt. By the time I went to seminary, however (because who wants to educate decent clergy?) I borrowed at first on a credit card but then the church where I was a member actually paid my tuition for several years so I came out with an advanced degree without debt. My youngest joined the Navy to become a doctor - he owed the nation for his education and he paid a good part of it in the Navy. My other two had to borrow money and they may be close by now to paying it off. Something has been wrong with all of that for years and years. If you did not hear Fresh Air today and a report from ProPublica of how the billionaire class get away with paying no income taxes at all, be sure to find it and take a listen, then find the report. And then when you think of "Cinema" and "Mansion"- although ostensibly democrats -really just one more of the crowd protecting the ultra rich from paying their fair share while everyone else hunkers down trying to make it from day to day. I learned today that one county in Mississippi, primarily composed of African American residents, is audited more by the IRS than the billionaires at the top - because of --hold on to your hat - the EARNED INCOME TAX CREDIT! At any rate - the dems, by and large, are better than the r's - who have taken on everything but the brown uniforms at this point. They are however practicing their salutes to whichever fascist comes along - Orban comes to mind. Finally I learned a NEW WORD today for which I will forever be grateful - I wonder if I can sneak it into a sermon? It begins with F!
We barely qualify, but will benefit from the loan forgiveness, so am definitely biased. I believe I would support it even if I did not qualify. I feel Biden did his best to balance campaign promises with the economy and making sure not to look too communist in the eyes of the criminal, socialism for us, and fiscally irresponsible trump party, oh wait… my kid is doing local JC because it is a fast cheap way to start a career paying well. My child can stick with that or pay own way or self teach through less accessible and more costly stem careers because child and we do not see the need to put ourselves $25-50k in the hole for a state college degree. I remember when I first went to college and state tuition was under $900 and rent for my own room about $500. Very doable. Even returning as an adult was not bad. Now average families and individuals starting out are very impacted by the costs. It’s a different world for young adults.
Two observations. Education is a commn good. My wife and I would never have become professional were in not for outreach in the 1960s, low cost junior and teacher college tuition and fees, and cheap living. Because we succeeded afterwards, we were able to choose to have one of us a stay-at-home parent and we were also able to pay off our son's student loans when he completed his high cost college education at a prestegous liberal arts school where he had won a music scholarship, pay more taxes than any of our parents could have imagined, and give back to five colleges and local community charities that support students, the needly, and people with disabili5ies.. Secondly, the core argument against these forgiveness efforts is, IMO, that is that to do so is somehow unfair because others aren't getting anything or 5 -cents of my tax dollars is going to go to pay for someone elses problem. I applaud any program, policy, or effort to give anyone, a hand up that opens up opportunity to choose, to gain some control over their economic plight, and a chance to live at least as well as we do. The folks this effort targets are us and we might not have been successful, just gifted a chance to be so without the fear of unreal debt taken on in the hopes to do well. It's about the common good. I liked being a janitor. I happen to be more useful and valuable as a scientist and a whole lot of kids learned to read and, some, write books and sermons with substance because my wife could choose to teach children in gifted education and help establish a k-6 school that opened up a whole passel of alternatives. Unfair is walking away from the chance to help s9meone else.
well, Tom, you certainly know my feelings (and life experience) about this particular topic. in my case, it was greatly increased because my dad was a top administrator at our alma mater, CCNY,, and spent whatever extra time he had writing fifteen YA biographies (when such things existed) and endlessly organizing protests in Albany supporting the continuation of our revolutionary (which it was in 1847) free public university system because OUR miserable governor Rockefeller ( a dyslexic Dartmouth alum who could afford to hire other students to read aloud to him) had sworn to destroy that system. at the time, I'd mock my dad for being over-zealous ("hey," I'd say, "we've had t long enough that no one's gonna take it away), which is a perfect example of Youthful Folly. what's funny is that in the late '80's, when I decided to attend social work school at Hunter (a CUNY campus), it wasn't free and I decided to take out a small student loan to "help with expenses." and I had ten years to "repent at leisure." and what's the Repug argument now? isn't it still that old bullshit about how people need to "take responsibility" and "not make commitments they have no way of fulfilling?" so clueless. fuck them.
TCinLA...You laid it out in your hip way, and I couldn't agree with you more. The benefit of free public education (and free libraries, for that matter) is a topic I'm crazy about - especially, as we see how poorly educated Americans have become over the past 50+ years. It's part of our civic responsibility. For my part, I would be long dead after a career of selling pencils on street corners had it not been for leaving college debt-free in 1973. What young person doesn't need to have the HOPE that financial support and encouragement from a society gives one? I've talked with 3rd graders who see no hope for their futures!!! It didn't go far enough, but Biden's student debt forgiveness is a baby step in the right direction. We need to broadcast this to the heavens and back, as the mid-terms approach. xo
I shared this on my FB page. Their true colors are being revealed today by certain closeted cult members who are in meltdown mode over debt forgiveness. I may do a little housecleaning after this...on FB.
I have absolutely no problem with this student loan forgiveness program, no member of my family will be benefiting and that doesn't matter. As I understand it, this student loan debt is onerous, there is no escaping it and with compounded interest, is a burden that many simply can not bear. If the piece of shit that we had for a president can escape paying business debts through bankruptcy many times, then we ought to help the millions that are burdened with this debt, to do so will allow them to be much more involved with our society, they will be able to afford a car that's not a piece of junk, which will enable them to choose where they work based on what's good for them, eventually buy a home and begin to build wealth , maybe even start a business and employ others. In sum these people will begin to have discretionary income which will allow them to participate more fully in our society. That to me is a good thing.
I went to a private college in the 70's. Tuition started at 1k a semester ( for real!). It was paid for by SS, VA GI Bill because my father died of WWII related problem in early 1956 before I was born
My husband is 58. He has such a massive college debt that we will never, ever get resolved. Rich got married young and had the first of his children at 23. His future ex wife was pursuing her degree. They soon had 2 kids to raise by the time Rich was 26. Rich got every loan and grant available so one could stay home while the other worked. Rich got his degree in studio arts ( which every fucking republican loves a liberal arts degree, fuckwads.
Rich gets divorced, we have been married over 26 years. We are crushed by his student debt. He has always worked but not at an income level in the rust belt. He is now a caretaker for developmentally disabled adults in a group home for $15.50 per hour.
We have had deferments, and tons of resources to help. Every time we got our heads above water something g would happen....this is not bullshit.
Anything the government can do to help us is appreciated and 10k is a drop in the bucket.
Fuck anybody who whines about helping students in debt. We weren't cruising around the world and ripping up the bills in every port. It went to rent, child support, utilities,car payment, etc. The loan came last.
I truly hate the people who are bitching about this. These motherfuckers would not like me when I'm mad. Not the fuck at all. Can you spare a dime from PPP Maggot Taylor Gross? Rubio, Ryan, Gym Jordan, bitch McConnell? I didn't think so.
TCinLA is correct - putting aside the issue of fairness to those who did pay off their college loans, the plain fact is that the astounding levels of college debt will hurt the country for decades because people in such heavy debt will never participate in the economy or be able to support it, and that will reduce our economy overall. Houses not bought, families not started, lives not fully lived - all are part of this situation. And it plays out over the entire country - states are not supporting public schools the way they used to and so your property taxes go up to make up the difference, and still the schools are starving for the funds to make them good sources of education for our kids..... You can pay us now, or you can pay us later.....
Agree with your history 100%. No reservations. (Including your justified dig at Jerry Brown who was, for all intents and purposes, a Republican and led the way in defunding and defaming higher education in California).
I cannot imagine how a family of modest means can send a kid to college these days. My oldest will start at UC Irvine next month, and tuition, fees, room and board will top $36,000 annually. Such a change from when I attended UC San Diego (class of ‘80) with tuition at $400-ish a quarter. My dad, a house painter, could afford that thanks to his union job. A little scholarship money and summer earnings let me graduate without debt. I did have to take out loans for law school but they weren’t that big and were paid off within ten years.
The debt loads kids are expected to shoulder today are outrageous. And they are not automatically dischargeable in a Chapter 7 bankruptcy proceeding. The debtor has to start an adversarial proceeding in the bankruptcy court and the test required to discharge the debt is, in practice, nearly impossible to meet. Since 1977 the law applicable to discharge of student loans has been increasingly tightened until such loans have become a form of servitude.
I am constantly shocked at the success of the right wing in convincing so many working class people that education is bad or useless or something to discourage. The jealousy on display now is so short sighted. They are so worried that someone else is going to benefit. Maybe they should pretend it’s just a tax cut for big corporations that they also didn’t get (and oddly never complained about).
I had to laugh when I listened to Beau of the Fifth Column on his post today on student debt forgiveness. Not because of what he said. I agree with it. But, because what others were literally spittle- sputtering today “got his dander up” https://youtu.be/eNhGoVucluE
Just like somebody else who I follow. Hahahahahahaha
Thanks for writing this. I've tried to look at it from both points of view, but the only compelling argument against is that this gives the GOP something to campaign on. The democratic party needs to get in front of that with all the reasons & emotions that you've stated here.
In my lifetime, I've paid off 2 students loans (I didn't finish the first time) & some of my kids' tuition. However, one son decided to go to ITT for a criminal justice degree & ended up with lots of debt. Luckily, he did land a law enforcement job (& learned that he could have been hired without the degree & they would have paid for getting one). He's got his 10 years in, but getting loan forgiveness can be a bureaucratic nightmare. Hopefully this speeds things up. Younger son took the community college route & has learned the pitfalls of not having a 4 year degree in his field.
OMG! What a great commentary on what happened to the idea that education (no matter at what level but certainly from pre-K through college - if that is where your path led) was for the PUBLIC GOOD and not a way for fat cats to get even more into their portfoliios and grow the loan industry. I too, went to college through state funded grants - I too came out of college without debt. By the time I went to seminary, however (because who wants to educate decent clergy?) I borrowed at first on a credit card but then the church where I was a member actually paid my tuition for several years so I came out with an advanced degree without debt. My youngest joined the Navy to become a doctor - he owed the nation for his education and he paid a good part of it in the Navy. My other two had to borrow money and they may be close by now to paying it off. Something has been wrong with all of that for years and years. If you did not hear Fresh Air today and a report from ProPublica of how the billionaire class get away with paying no income taxes at all, be sure to find it and take a listen, then find the report. And then when you think of "Cinema" and "Mansion"- although ostensibly democrats -really just one more of the crowd protecting the ultra rich from paying their fair share while everyone else hunkers down trying to make it from day to day. I learned today that one county in Mississippi, primarily composed of African American residents, is audited more by the IRS than the billionaires at the top - because of --hold on to your hat - the EARNED INCOME TAX CREDIT! At any rate - the dems, by and large, are better than the r's - who have taken on everything but the brown uniforms at this point. They are however practicing their salutes to whichever fascist comes along - Orban comes to mind. Finally I learned a NEW WORD today for which I will forever be grateful - I wonder if I can sneak it into a sermon? It begins with F!
We barely qualify, but will benefit from the loan forgiveness, so am definitely biased. I believe I would support it even if I did not qualify. I feel Biden did his best to balance campaign promises with the economy and making sure not to look too communist in the eyes of the criminal, socialism for us, and fiscally irresponsible trump party, oh wait… my kid is doing local JC because it is a fast cheap way to start a career paying well. My child can stick with that or pay own way or self teach through less accessible and more costly stem careers because child and we do not see the need to put ourselves $25-50k in the hole for a state college degree. I remember when I first went to college and state tuition was under $900 and rent for my own room about $500. Very doable. Even returning as an adult was not bad. Now average families and individuals starting out are very impacted by the costs. It’s a different world for young adults.
Two observations. Education is a commn good. My wife and I would never have become professional were in not for outreach in the 1960s, low cost junior and teacher college tuition and fees, and cheap living. Because we succeeded afterwards, we were able to choose to have one of us a stay-at-home parent and we were also able to pay off our son's student loans when he completed his high cost college education at a prestegous liberal arts school where he had won a music scholarship, pay more taxes than any of our parents could have imagined, and give back to five colleges and local community charities that support students, the needly, and people with disabili5ies.. Secondly, the core argument against these forgiveness efforts is, IMO, that is that to do so is somehow unfair because others aren't getting anything or 5 -cents of my tax dollars is going to go to pay for someone elses problem. I applaud any program, policy, or effort to give anyone, a hand up that opens up opportunity to choose, to gain some control over their economic plight, and a chance to live at least as well as we do. The folks this effort targets are us and we might not have been successful, just gifted a chance to be so without the fear of unreal debt taken on in the hopes to do well. It's about the common good. I liked being a janitor. I happen to be more useful and valuable as a scientist and a whole lot of kids learned to read and, some, write books and sermons with substance because my wife could choose to teach children in gifted education and help establish a k-6 school that opened up a whole passel of alternatives. Unfair is walking away from the chance to help s9meone else.
well, Tom, you certainly know my feelings (and life experience) about this particular topic. in my case, it was greatly increased because my dad was a top administrator at our alma mater, CCNY,, and spent whatever extra time he had writing fifteen YA biographies (when such things existed) and endlessly organizing protests in Albany supporting the continuation of our revolutionary (which it was in 1847) free public university system because OUR miserable governor Rockefeller ( a dyslexic Dartmouth alum who could afford to hire other students to read aloud to him) had sworn to destroy that system. at the time, I'd mock my dad for being over-zealous ("hey," I'd say, "we've had t long enough that no one's gonna take it away), which is a perfect example of Youthful Folly. what's funny is that in the late '80's, when I decided to attend social work school at Hunter (a CUNY campus), it wasn't free and I decided to take out a small student loan to "help with expenses." and I had ten years to "repent at leisure." and what's the Repug argument now? isn't it still that old bullshit about how people need to "take responsibility" and "not make commitments they have no way of fulfilling?" so clueless. fuck them.
TCinLA...You laid it out in your hip way, and I couldn't agree with you more. The benefit of free public education (and free libraries, for that matter) is a topic I'm crazy about - especially, as we see how poorly educated Americans have become over the past 50+ years. It's part of our civic responsibility. For my part, I would be long dead after a career of selling pencils on street corners had it not been for leaving college debt-free in 1973. What young person doesn't need to have the HOPE that financial support and encouragement from a society gives one? I've talked with 3rd graders who see no hope for their futures!!! It didn't go far enough, but Biden's student debt forgiveness is a baby step in the right direction. We need to broadcast this to the heavens and back, as the mid-terms approach. xo
I shared this on my FB page. Their true colors are being revealed today by certain closeted cult members who are in meltdown mode over debt forgiveness. I may do a little housecleaning after this...on FB.
I have absolutely no problem with this student loan forgiveness program, no member of my family will be benefiting and that doesn't matter. As I understand it, this student loan debt is onerous, there is no escaping it and with compounded interest, is a burden that many simply can not bear. If the piece of shit that we had for a president can escape paying business debts through bankruptcy many times, then we ought to help the millions that are burdened with this debt, to do so will allow them to be much more involved with our society, they will be able to afford a car that's not a piece of junk, which will enable them to choose where they work based on what's good for them, eventually buy a home and begin to build wealth , maybe even start a business and employ others. In sum these people will begin to have discretionary income which will allow them to participate more fully in our society. That to me is a good thing.
Super post. Righteous.
I went to a private college in the 70's. Tuition started at 1k a semester ( for real!). It was paid for by SS, VA GI Bill because my father died of WWII related problem in early 1956 before I was born
My husband is 58. He has such a massive college debt that we will never, ever get resolved. Rich got married young and had the first of his children at 23. His future ex wife was pursuing her degree. They soon had 2 kids to raise by the time Rich was 26. Rich got every loan and grant available so one could stay home while the other worked. Rich got his degree in studio arts ( which every fucking republican loves a liberal arts degree, fuckwads.
Rich gets divorced, we have been married over 26 years. We are crushed by his student debt. He has always worked but not at an income level in the rust belt. He is now a caretaker for developmentally disabled adults in a group home for $15.50 per hour.
We have had deferments, and tons of resources to help. Every time we got our heads above water something g would happen....this is not bullshit.
Anything the government can do to help us is appreciated and 10k is a drop in the bucket.
Fuck anybody who whines about helping students in debt. We weren't cruising around the world and ripping up the bills in every port. It went to rent, child support, utilities,car payment, etc. The loan came last.
I truly hate the people who are bitching about this. These motherfuckers would not like me when I'm mad. Not the fuck at all. Can you spare a dime from PPP Maggot Taylor Gross? Rubio, Ryan, Gym Jordan, bitch McConnell? I didn't think so.
A little angry, are ya, Tom? Me too.
TCinLA is correct - putting aside the issue of fairness to those who did pay off their college loans, the plain fact is that the astounding levels of college debt will hurt the country for decades because people in such heavy debt will never participate in the economy or be able to support it, and that will reduce our economy overall. Houses not bought, families not started, lives not fully lived - all are part of this situation. And it plays out over the entire country - states are not supporting public schools the way they used to and so your property taxes go up to make up the difference, and still the schools are starving for the funds to make them good sources of education for our kids..... You can pay us now, or you can pay us later.....
Agree with your history 100%. No reservations. (Including your justified dig at Jerry Brown who was, for all intents and purposes, a Republican and led the way in defunding and defaming higher education in California).
I cannot imagine how a family of modest means can send a kid to college these days. My oldest will start at UC Irvine next month, and tuition, fees, room and board will top $36,000 annually. Such a change from when I attended UC San Diego (class of ‘80) with tuition at $400-ish a quarter. My dad, a house painter, could afford that thanks to his union job. A little scholarship money and summer earnings let me graduate without debt. I did have to take out loans for law school but they weren’t that big and were paid off within ten years.
The debt loads kids are expected to shoulder today are outrageous. And they are not automatically dischargeable in a Chapter 7 bankruptcy proceeding. The debtor has to start an adversarial proceeding in the bankruptcy court and the test required to discharge the debt is, in practice, nearly impossible to meet. Since 1977 the law applicable to discharge of student loans has been increasingly tightened until such loans have become a form of servitude.
I am constantly shocked at the success of the right wing in convincing so many working class people that education is bad or useless or something to discourage. The jealousy on display now is so short sighted. They are so worried that someone else is going to benefit. Maybe they should pretend it’s just a tax cut for big corporations that they also didn’t get (and oddly never complained about).
I had to laugh when I listened to Beau of the Fifth Column on his post today on student debt forgiveness. Not because of what he said. I agree with it. But, because what others were literally spittle- sputtering today “got his dander up” https://youtu.be/eNhGoVucluE
Just like somebody else who I follow. Hahahahahahaha
Sizzlin’, TC. Sizzlin’.
To the day when FUBARED AMERICA meets in hell as the Thwaites Glacier, nicknamed “doomsday” moves in.
Thanks for writing this. I've tried to look at it from both points of view, but the only compelling argument against is that this gives the GOP something to campaign on. The democratic party needs to get in front of that with all the reasons & emotions that you've stated here.
In my lifetime, I've paid off 2 students loans (I didn't finish the first time) & some of my kids' tuition. However, one son decided to go to ITT for a criminal justice degree & ended up with lots of debt. Luckily, he did land a law enforcement job (& learned that he could have been hired without the degree & they would have paid for getting one). He's got his 10 years in, but getting loan forgiveness can be a bureaucratic nightmare. Hopefully this speeds things up. Younger son took the community college route & has learned the pitfalls of not having a 4 year degree in his field.
👏👏👏👏👏👏👏