I could not agree with your last statement more...when he is 6 feet under...or scattered to the winds...I don't care which, as long as it happens sooner rather than later...
So Trump sells enough of his TS shares to pay the judgements, or pay for the appeal. Either way, that money is gone. More importantly, he’s been convicted of sexual assault, defamation, and massive fraud. His worshippers may not care, but independent voters do care. And he’s not teflon any more. Instead, he’s the king of losers, the biggest loser ever.
Oh yeah. but I was hoping he wouldn't have the money. No appeal, and lots of problems paying up. Every time he's in the news I am always hoping for the worst possible outcome for him.
TC I couldn’t agree more. The orange blob continues on like The Titanic taking this country w him especially now re the house of rip about funding Ukraine. What a psychopathic narcissistic menace like the mendacious murderous Russian fat face.
I suspect the TS shares are not worth the paper used to print them! The buildings and other properties must be used to get a billion from some demented mega billionaire!!
TC, you are the only one I've seen or heard who has done the math. But thanks to the SEC, the Tangerine Tantrum Thrower may slither away from the brink of ruin once again. He has a lot in common with a cockroach.
Imagine Fat Boy having to sell pieces of his real estate empire to raise money…and who would be interested in buying up his hotels and golf courses at what valuations? Maybe his good buddy Russian oligarchs or Jared’s Saudi princes moneybags? And I’m pretty sure his MAGA cultists are more than willing to part with their trailer park rental money to bail out their Orange Messiah, so it’ll be interesting seeing where the cash spigots start getting turned on and by whom. And all for this financial “wizard” who lost money in the process of bankrupting casinos and all sorts of nickel and dime scams over the years…how pathetic a spectacle…
I'm pretty sure--very sure--that the appeal bond itself doesn't "pay" 9% interest. The underlying judgment continues to accrue 9% interest during the appeal. That's why the total bond required is 120% of the judgment. (I've read elsewhere that it is 110%. The amount is decided by the court).
To appeal, he needs to do one of two things.
a) put up a cash bond with the court. If that requires depositing the full amount with the court, generally courts don't pay interest on such deposits. So he has to keep paying 9% on the judgment but gets no interest on the funds used to allow the appeal. That latter is true whether he loses or wins the appeal. Obviously he gets the funds back if he wins, but the longer he delays, the longer the cash earns just as much as if it were in a sock under the bed.
b) get a surety bond if any surety will write one. They will most certainly require collateral, and the individual indemnity of spouses of anyone on the judgement. Some sureties will pay interest if they actually take cash collateral, though possibly at bank account rates. The surety is liable for the amount of the bond--not sure if that will be the 354 or include the pre-judgment interest (Plus the extra percent) . Probably the latter--the size of the surety bond is up to the court. The bond size is called the penal sum.
The bond WILL require a premium,--non refundable even if he wins-- which for surety is based on the financial worth of the bond principal (here, trump). The premium is that way, not actuarial, because the surety wants to be sure it will get the money back if it has to pay, and how hard it might be for that to happen is how they determine the premium. And they get to make their OWN evaluation of that worth--in this case, an interesting problem. A lot will depend on how many loans are ahead of them on any real estate they might take as collateral. Sureties aren't real happy with being a second or more on a deed of trust. Nor are they real happy with "projected" stock holdings for a new publicly traded company. In any event, he has to post the bond within 30 days of being served with the judgment-will the merger be in time?
If he loses, the bond will have to pay its penal sum. If he drags it out further, he will also have to pay the plaintiff additional interest besides having to repay the surety what they put out. Donnie is going to have to change his usual tactics about delays, or lose money.
The REAL kicker here is that the judgment doesn't let him take any loans from any financial company registered in the state. Given that this is New York, that is a WHOLE LOT of financial companies covered by the ban. A surety bond is basically a loan of credit. Will that be included in the ban? Because the court won't take a bond from a surety NOT registered in the state. Will judge E consider it a loan from a financial institution? A surety is admitted to the state under Insurance Commissioner rules. They do have rates filed, but those are stated in terms of the risk of the prospective deal, not just "so much per size of bond."
The same interesting thing applies to getting a loan from ANYONE even if he oozes collateral. He's pretty much down to the "pay up or we destroy your knees " crowd and will, of course, have to pay whatever interest the loan itself requires. The knee breaker folks aren't averse to a bit of usury.
Can he get a loan from Putin? Depends a lot on how sanctions against Russia are set up. And as optics go, that is not a good look.
Donnie boy is between a rock and a hard place to get his bond. And he has to do it all separately for E Jean. Different premium, or more cash not earning interest.
There is SO much misinformation out there about how bonds work. One commentator called it a "so-called appeal bond" as if it wasn't really a bond. That makes no sense.
Damn, I thought this was going to be my picker upper for the day, but it details an escape route for the “slipperest” eel to ever slime his way into our national conversation. Oh, when will the door slam shut in his face. Will Nov do it? It’s our only chance to survive our “Hitler” in the flesh.
You summed that up nicely once again. But if he’s suddenly flush with cash, can’t he be held accountable for all his fines and fees? He is indeed King of the Douche Bags 💼
Tragically there are enough mega billionaires who have a SPARE (chump change to them) billion to front the oranger creature. The distressed properties eventually yield several times the paltry one billion in Shylock money! Like the crew on shark tank, the VIG for the loan will come from a ‘piece of all trump’s action!
And the cesspool dweller trump will still have protection paid for the US citizens for life!!!
Watch for the red cap collection plate to begin being passed at the knucklehead rallies now that the true believers have been made to feel that triple tithing will assure them places in maga paradise. No matter the outcome for Trump, these folks will still be with us and will not yield to deprogramming. Putin's work may be done here. (Watch him for the ceremonial hand dusting gesture and gleeful smirk.)
Tom, Great comprehensive analysis. The Orange skid- mark may need at least a quarter of his publicly traded stock (about $1B value) to secure the $700M cash bond and interest expenses he’ll need to file his appeals. If the stock price slides, he’ll need to provide more stock or the bond company will liquidate his declining shares to protect themselves. It could go south quickly in a falling stock market.
Usually the surety can't do much with declining shares while the appeal is pending, unless the indemnity agreement allows it. Any surety thinking about this aspect is right now busy writing a special indemnity agreement, I'll bet. They are more likely to be skeptical of considering the shares at all as collateral.
Susan, I read somewhere that part of the TS merger deal is that stakeholders cannot sell shares for 6 months. Does that restriction also apply to using the shares as collateral?
no idea. My background is surety, not mergers. Remember collateral is something the lender WANTS to hold --you can't force it on them. So what matters is the stability of the collateral--or rather, its potential instability. There have been a lot of IPOs where the stock has promptly gone south. A quick trot through Google shows me that that is (surprise) often because the initial offering's value is overstated. Would you invest in a company whose major shareholder just got hit with 354 million for overstating values?
I can't believe this! Just when I was savoring the moment. You are the only person to report this news so far in my silo, which says a lot for your skills. It always keeps coming back to staying focused on defeating this hydra-headed "Freddie" monster at the polls in November.
I could not agree with your last statement more...when he is 6 feet under...or scattered to the winds...I don't care which, as long as it happens sooner rather than later...
So Trump sells enough of his TS shares to pay the judgements, or pay for the appeal. Either way, that money is gone. More importantly, he’s been convicted of sexual assault, defamation, and massive fraud. His worshippers may not care, but independent voters do care. And he’s not teflon any more. Instead, he’s the king of losers, the biggest loser ever.
Oh yeah. but I was hoping he wouldn't have the money. No appeal, and lots of problems paying up. Every time he's in the news I am always hoping for the worst possible outcome for him.
TC I couldn’t agree more. The orange blob continues on like The Titanic taking this country w him especially now re the house of rip about funding Ukraine. What a psychopathic narcissistic menace like the mendacious murderous Russian fat face.
Me too
Did that blank check have Putin's signature on it or MSB's??
I suspect the TS shares are not worth the paper used to print them! The buildings and other properties must be used to get a billion from some demented mega billionaire!!
King of the losers
Alas, maybe not.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/feb/15/sec-approve-trump-truth-social-merger
Enjoyed that Lincoln Project video. Bigly!
Yeah, it's sure to "leave a mark."
Judge Engoron did us proud.
Both sons 2million!👍 Supervision by Judge Jones
for 3 years. No more dirty deals in NY. Brava to Leticia
James for her tireless work.
Truth Social? LMAO. He owns
79% of the stock? You see where this will go don't you?
Has Trump ever done a good
business deal? Who hasn't he
thrown under the bus,
backed it up and run over
them again?
Elon Musk and Xshitter is a good example, as is Tesla.
As for the SEC, I have to check it, but if it's setup like
FEC and others, equal number dems/repubs. Don't
know what their voting rules
are like in case of absences
or retirements, etc.
Personally, I hope you're right. I did not like discovering that bit of news.
Just think though. We don't
know the "deal" between
TS & this other group. I know
about a year ago, they had
serious reservations about
completing the partnership.
We'll have to find out the ins
and outs, plus the fine print.
I bet there's some sort of
hold on Trump's being able
to sell his stock. It's public,
so who are the BODs? Look
what just happened with
Musk & Tesla share holders
over his outrageous pay ask.
TC, you are the only one I've seen or heard who has done the math. But thanks to the SEC, the Tangerine Tantrum Thrower may slither away from the brink of ruin once again. He has a lot in common with a cockroach.
He IS a cockroach.
Imagine Fat Boy having to sell pieces of his real estate empire to raise money…and who would be interested in buying up his hotels and golf courses at what valuations? Maybe his good buddy Russian oligarchs or Jared’s Saudi princes moneybags? And I’m pretty sure his MAGA cultists are more than willing to part with their trailer park rental money to bail out their Orange Messiah, so it’ll be interesting seeing where the cash spigots start getting turned on and by whom. And all for this financial “wizard” who lost money in the process of bankrupting casinos and all sorts of nickel and dime scams over the years…how pathetic a spectacle…
I'm pretty sure--very sure--that the appeal bond itself doesn't "pay" 9% interest. The underlying judgment continues to accrue 9% interest during the appeal. That's why the total bond required is 120% of the judgment. (I've read elsewhere that it is 110%. The amount is decided by the court).
To appeal, he needs to do one of two things.
a) put up a cash bond with the court. If that requires depositing the full amount with the court, generally courts don't pay interest on such deposits. So he has to keep paying 9% on the judgment but gets no interest on the funds used to allow the appeal. That latter is true whether he loses or wins the appeal. Obviously he gets the funds back if he wins, but the longer he delays, the longer the cash earns just as much as if it were in a sock under the bed.
b) get a surety bond if any surety will write one. They will most certainly require collateral, and the individual indemnity of spouses of anyone on the judgement. Some sureties will pay interest if they actually take cash collateral, though possibly at bank account rates. The surety is liable for the amount of the bond--not sure if that will be the 354 or include the pre-judgment interest (Plus the extra percent) . Probably the latter--the size of the surety bond is up to the court. The bond size is called the penal sum.
The bond WILL require a premium,--non refundable even if he wins-- which for surety is based on the financial worth of the bond principal (here, trump). The premium is that way, not actuarial, because the surety wants to be sure it will get the money back if it has to pay, and how hard it might be for that to happen is how they determine the premium. And they get to make their OWN evaluation of that worth--in this case, an interesting problem. A lot will depend on how many loans are ahead of them on any real estate they might take as collateral. Sureties aren't real happy with being a second or more on a deed of trust. Nor are they real happy with "projected" stock holdings for a new publicly traded company. In any event, he has to post the bond within 30 days of being served with the judgment-will the merger be in time?
If he loses, the bond will have to pay its penal sum. If he drags it out further, he will also have to pay the plaintiff additional interest besides having to repay the surety what they put out. Donnie is going to have to change his usual tactics about delays, or lose money.
The REAL kicker here is that the judgment doesn't let him take any loans from any financial company registered in the state. Given that this is New York, that is a WHOLE LOT of financial companies covered by the ban. A surety bond is basically a loan of credit. Will that be included in the ban? Because the court won't take a bond from a surety NOT registered in the state. Will judge E consider it a loan from a financial institution? A surety is admitted to the state under Insurance Commissioner rules. They do have rates filed, but those are stated in terms of the risk of the prospective deal, not just "so much per size of bond."
The same interesting thing applies to getting a loan from ANYONE even if he oozes collateral. He's pretty much down to the "pay up or we destroy your knees " crowd and will, of course, have to pay whatever interest the loan itself requires. The knee breaker folks aren't averse to a bit of usury.
Can he get a loan from Putin? Depends a lot on how sanctions against Russia are set up. And as optics go, that is not a good look.
Donnie boy is between a rock and a hard place to get his bond. And he has to do it all separately for E Jean. Different premium, or more cash not earning interest.
There is SO much misinformation out there about how bonds work. One commentator called it a "so-called appeal bond" as if it wasn't really a bond. That makes no sense.
I suspect the NY Russian mob's phones are hot right now, including endless international calls.
Yes, it's 30 days.
And we are approaching that with the E Jean Carroll judgment. Wonder if he is having trouble getting a bond for that???
So suddenly today the SEC agreed on the merger? How coincidental!
Just when I was starting to feel a shred of hope....
Me too. I found the CNN report halfway through writing this - I think you can see the moment when the mood changes.
Damn, I thought this was going to be my picker upper for the day, but it details an escape route for the “slipperest” eel to ever slime his way into our national conversation. Oh, when will the door slam shut in his face. Will Nov do it? It’s our only chance to survive our “Hitler” in the flesh.
You summed that up nicely once again. But if he’s suddenly flush with cash, can’t he be held accountable for all his fines and fees? He is indeed King of the Douche Bags 💼
Tragically there are enough mega billionaires who have a SPARE (chump change to them) billion to front the oranger creature. The distressed properties eventually yield several times the paltry one billion in Shylock money! Like the crew on shark tank, the VIG for the loan will come from a ‘piece of all trump’s action!
And the cesspool dweller trump will still have protection paid for the US citizens for life!!!
Makes me want to vomit!
Watch for the red cap collection plate to begin being passed at the knucklehead rallies now that the true believers have been made to feel that triple tithing will assure them places in maga paradise. No matter the outcome for Trump, these folks will still be with us and will not yield to deprogramming. Putin's work may be done here. (Watch him for the ceremonial hand dusting gesture and gleeful smirk.)
I'm sure by now that you and others have heard about the $399 gold hi-tops he began hawking at the Pennsylvania event he attended yesterday or Friday.
I had to research blank-check acquisition firm. Also, looks like Digital World “moved” to a PO Box in Miami. So Putin bought Digital World ?
Tom, Great comprehensive analysis. The Orange skid- mark may need at least a quarter of his publicly traded stock (about $1B value) to secure the $700M cash bond and interest expenses he’ll need to file his appeals. If the stock price slides, he’ll need to provide more stock or the bond company will liquidate his declining shares to protect themselves. It could go south quickly in a falling stock market.
Usually the surety can't do much with declining shares while the appeal is pending, unless the indemnity agreement allows it. Any surety thinking about this aspect is right now busy writing a special indemnity agreement, I'll bet. They are more likely to be skeptical of considering the shares at all as collateral.
Susan, I read somewhere that part of the TS merger deal is that stakeholders cannot sell shares for 6 months. Does that restriction also apply to using the shares as collateral?
no idea. My background is surety, not mergers. Remember collateral is something the lender WANTS to hold --you can't force it on them. So what matters is the stability of the collateral--or rather, its potential instability. There have been a lot of IPOs where the stock has promptly gone south. A quick trot through Google shows me that that is (surprise) often because the initial offering's value is overstated. Would you invest in a company whose major shareholder just got hit with 354 million for overstating values?
Good point. No, I would not!! Thankyou for your surety knowledge... most informative.
I can't believe this! Just when I was savoring the moment. You are the only person to report this news so far in my silo, which says a lot for your skills. It always keeps coming back to staying focused on defeating this hydra-headed "Freddie" monster at the polls in November.