I have this thought that they take a meeting down at Mar A Lardo with Lardo and his attorney, and they lay out the slam-dunk case, and then tell him there's a way to avoid trial, conviction and jail.
What is it? he asks.
You close down everything. No more anything. You shut up. You play golf here every day like the old retired duffer you are.
And he takes the deal, because he always folds when confronted with conviction. Because he's a coward and the one thing in the world he doesn't want to do is go to jail.
As much as I would love to see him die in prison, I'd be fine with this deal.
We can be a nation of laws, or a nation of “deals”. I don’t think we can be both, not while the plotters are still plotting the next coup, either by voter suppression, exploiting norms, finding loopholes, enlisting shady right wing nut and evangelical lawyers finding a way to ‘bend’ the law to their minority.
I’ll be happy and content, only with accountability. To me that is a conviction, sentence, and time served. Let that lesson sink in and be a warning to all the plotters past, present, and future.
Yes, that is what I want also, but this country is so badly divided now, I'm not sure we'd get to what we want in the long run if we went that way. As David Herrick points out, what we need is revision of the Constitution to insure a Trump never gets this far again. If we can get the D majority needed, and the political dial-down needed, and accomplish that, I'll be OK with however we get there. Not necessarily happy, but OK is good enough.
That might be a worse scenario than Ford pardoning Nixon in the long run though? Nixon was at least forced to resign, so there was consequences for him to face. The pardon then, enabled Nixon to not have to acknowledge his crimes publicly, and his junior staffers are TFG’s staff plotters today. TFG will only quit if he faces some real consequences. His true believers will come crawling back too unless they face punishment. Our system needs a reality jolt to reset what is good and acceptable in America. And yes sir, it includes new laws and new preventative protections.
All your points are exactly right, and why I personally hold out for conviction and imprisonment. Such a thing may not be politically possible, which is why I am pointing out we may have to be OK with "OK."
I quess my hope is a conviction, and with a clear statement of admission of quilt, admission of lying, conspiring, plotting, inciting, and an apology to Capital Police and their families.
What kind of man puts himself in this Postion? A delusional one. A narcissist. A criminal. A broke and desperate man with no other choice.
I agree. I don't trust TFG at all and there are too many pliable judges who would entertain an attempt to throw out the deal a couple of years from now. He needs to be put away and made an example of.
As long as Trump is made irrelevant, other dominos will fall within the Republican Party and some governance and progress will happen. Like revision. Like some lawmaking. Like a shakeup of SCOTUS. Like a lot of things.
I’m not sure. DeSatan is waiting in the wings. He will keep the MAGAts riled up, with promises of a pardon for Donnie. The Republican Party is rotten and irredeemable. Oligarchy married to racism. The fight will be very long.
I was thinking, If Chief Justice Robert’s cared about democracy, I think he would have resigned by now. That he hasn’t says enough about the man’s character. More proof of how power corrupts, even to the point of delusion.
I think it was the Esquire magazine website that suggested somewhat tongue-in-cheek that Roberts could retire to a well paid partnership in BigLaw now that he’s achieved his life’s dream of allowing corporations free reign to buy politicians (Citizens United) and killing the 1965 Voting Rights Act (Shelby County). Especially now that he’s no longer in control of the Court’s docket and his name will be associated in history with a lot of crazy cases (“the Roberts Court decided today, etc.”)
But…getting people with power and position to quit is damned near impossible. (See, Ginsberg.) You need the character of a Washington to do it. And Roberts can delude himself into thinking he has persuasive powers. And as Chief, as long as he votes with the Cons he gets to pick the author of the decision. Finally his name would be mud among his right wingy friends (that’s all the friends he has), if he let Biden pick a new Chief.
what just occurred to me, Tom, is that the deal you've described, in which he just shuts up, DOES feel like it has First Amendment implications. and since his people are a cult, I don't think it would completely diminish the existence of his "movement." let's remember that, whatever happens to him "personally," his people are going to gain additional fuel by repeating over and over that he's been "canceled" and "betrayed by a Bolshevik political party" and "evil individuals" for "telling the truth," or some other deluded bullshit. now, if he rolled over on everybody else, had to thoroughly describe what he did in public ("allocution?) and show some remorse for it (which feels almost GENETICALLY impossible to me), THAT (along with a huge fine, assuming that's possible) could be something I'd find acceptable. barely, because it would still demonstrate that guys like that never see the inside of a cell. I wonder if they could "hold" him somewhere, even for just a few days, so that he could, first of all, have that particular crappy experience and second of all, to make people like us a teeny bit happier.
"Wherever illiberal leaders govern, the rule of law is replaced by legal codes and systems that institutionalize violence and corruption. This creates a culture of impunity that attracts the lawless into government service and keeps collaborators loyal to the head of state." -Ruth Ben-Ghiat
Glenn Kirschner, former DOJ attorney, said months ago, the DOJ won’t bring a case they can’t lock down. He admits, if there’s a jury there’s margin for error, juries can be unpredictable. I’m confident the DOJ will collect all the necessary pieces of evidence.
I for one want to see him put in prison, I want to see him rot in there, Reidsville here in GA already has a squalid fetid cell with his name welded on it, it will be fun to see how many of his lawyers want to try to get to Reidsville to visit him. Once the stinking flatulence is out of the inflation he will be shown to be a small man, the one he has been his whole life, and we will be done with him, the only thing I ever want to read about him again ,is his obituary, that includes where he is buried so I know where to go when I have to take a piss, of that I am very clear.
Such a relief, isn’t it. TC, I started to feel a spark of hope in Garland about a month ago. His plodding along statements made me realize that he maybe combines “won’t be fearful of Trump’s wrathful accusations” with “won’t be moved by press and political pundits” with “won’t be afraid of affecting upcoming election.” Maybe. Fingers crossed. Want him to be my George Smiley in Tinker,Tailor ❤️🤍💙
Vote 51 may just be coming from Wisconsin if Ron Dipstick Johnson is as complicit as it now appears. Arrange a Senate meeting for Fack Slate of Electors?
A short while ago I posited that DOJ wouldn’t indict until after the midterms just because of the institutional need to lock down a case. I was thinking of the insurrection investigation. The fake elector scam is a totally different kettle of stinking fish. Much easier to prove and defenses are factual (“I didn’t write that”) instead of legal (“I am privileged to say anything I want at a rally”). So maybe this will move faster.
All it takes is one US Attorney or one AG or one DA to get the ball rolling and then they all will pile on. (Frankly I’m sort of surprised Georgia has jumped for the ball already.)
The DOJ wasn't sleeping when The Capitol was attacked and when Trump and his Hench Mob tried to overturn the election along with US government. That creepy rapist, con-artist, pathological liar, real-estate failure... had a mission and it failed like so many of his other ventures. What's Putin thinking and DJT's other dictator buddies?
More importantly what are the militias, the MAGAs, the Republican Party and those candidates like JD Vance in Ohio thinking? TC wrote that he would be shaking in his boots if he was Trump. Oh, yeah, HOW ABOUT SOME VIOLENCE INSTEAD?
Who are the MAGAs? 'The demographic composition of the MAGA movement is overwhelmingly white, male, Christian, retired, and over 65 years of age. They’re attracted to the following groups, ones that include gun rights, charities, pro police, anti-lockdown, pro-life, and “stop the steal.” They’re extremely politically active, all in support of the Republican Party. However, only roughly 60 percent are solid Republicans, the rest either “lean” Republican or Independent. The MAGA movement overwhelmingly believes Trump’s election fraud claims, would have supported him for a “third term”(had it been an option), and don’t believe that voting should be made easier.'(PSMM) See link below.
The MAGAs aren't young but, perhaps, they can't sit still with this news, and then there are the militias... Can a lid be kept on Trump's Millions of Maniacs?
To say I feel delighted just doesn't capture my joy! And there are so many emails! Colbert talked about them last night. The "wizard" will be unmasked. And sent away where he belongs.
Further, if he is cornered, he will offer up anyone and everyone around him. And that would be joyous.
I have this thought that they take a meeting down at Mar A Lardo with Lardo and his attorney, and they lay out the slam-dunk case, and then tell him there's a way to avoid trial, conviction and jail.
What is it? he asks.
You close down everything. No more anything. You shut up. You play golf here every day like the old retired duffer you are.
And he takes the deal, because he always folds when confronted with conviction. Because he's a coward and the one thing in the world he doesn't want to do is go to jail.
As much as I would love to see him die in prison, I'd be fine with this deal.
Happy yes, but content?
We can be a nation of laws, or a nation of “deals”. I don’t think we can be both, not while the plotters are still plotting the next coup, either by voter suppression, exploiting norms, finding loopholes, enlisting shady right wing nut and evangelical lawyers finding a way to ‘bend’ the law to their minority.
I’ll be happy and content, only with accountability. To me that is a conviction, sentence, and time served. Let that lesson sink in and be a warning to all the plotters past, present, and future.
Yes, that is what I want also, but this country is so badly divided now, I'm not sure we'd get to what we want in the long run if we went that way. As David Herrick points out, what we need is revision of the Constitution to insure a Trump never gets this far again. If we can get the D majority needed, and the political dial-down needed, and accomplish that, I'll be OK with however we get there. Not necessarily happy, but OK is good enough.
That might be a worse scenario than Ford pardoning Nixon in the long run though? Nixon was at least forced to resign, so there was consequences for him to face. The pardon then, enabled Nixon to not have to acknowledge his crimes publicly, and his junior staffers are TFG’s staff plotters today. TFG will only quit if he faces some real consequences. His true believers will come crawling back too unless they face punishment. Our system needs a reality jolt to reset what is good and acceptable in America. And yes sir, it includes new laws and new preventative protections.
All your points are exactly right, and why I personally hold out for conviction and imprisonment. Such a thing may not be politically possible, which is why I am pointing out we may have to be OK with "OK."
I quess my hope is a conviction, and with a clear statement of admission of quilt, admission of lying, conspiring, plotting, inciting, and an apology to Capital Police and their families.
What kind of man puts himself in this Postion? A delusional one. A narcissist. A criminal. A broke and desperate man with no other choice.
I agree. I don't trust TFG at all and there are too many pliable judges who would entertain an attempt to throw out the deal a couple of years from now. He needs to be put away and made an example of.
Yup.
As long as Trump is made irrelevant, other dominos will fall within the Republican Party and some governance and progress will happen. Like revision. Like some lawmaking. Like a shakeup of SCOTUS. Like a lot of things.
We surely need OK is good enough for a start.
I’m not sure. DeSatan is waiting in the wings. He will keep the MAGAts riled up, with promises of a pardon for Donnie. The Republican Party is rotten and irredeemable. Oligarchy married to racism. The fight will be very long.
There will likely never be a "win" date.
I was thinking, If Chief Justice Robert’s cared about democracy, I think he would have resigned by now. That he hasn’t says enough about the man’s character. More proof of how power corrupts, even to the point of delusion.
I think it was the Esquire magazine website that suggested somewhat tongue-in-cheek that Roberts could retire to a well paid partnership in BigLaw now that he’s achieved his life’s dream of allowing corporations free reign to buy politicians (Citizens United) and killing the 1965 Voting Rights Act (Shelby County). Especially now that he’s no longer in control of the Court’s docket and his name will be associated in history with a lot of crazy cases (“the Roberts Court decided today, etc.”)
But…getting people with power and position to quit is damned near impossible. (See, Ginsberg.) You need the character of a Washington to do it. And Roberts can delude himself into thinking he has persuasive powers. And as Chief, as long as he votes with the Cons he gets to pick the author of the decision. Finally his name would be mud among his right wingy friends (that’s all the friends he has), if he let Biden pick a new Chief.
So, Roberts is staying until he croaks.
what just occurred to me, Tom, is that the deal you've described, in which he just shuts up, DOES feel like it has First Amendment implications. and since his people are a cult, I don't think it would completely diminish the existence of his "movement." let's remember that, whatever happens to him "personally," his people are going to gain additional fuel by repeating over and over that he's been "canceled" and "betrayed by a Bolshevik political party" and "evil individuals" for "telling the truth," or some other deluded bullshit. now, if he rolled over on everybody else, had to thoroughly describe what he did in public ("allocution?) and show some remorse for it (which feels almost GENETICALLY impossible to me), THAT (along with a huge fine, assuming that's possible) could be something I'd find acceptable. barely, because it would still demonstrate that guys like that never see the inside of a cell. I wonder if they could "hold" him somewhere, even for just a few days, so that he could, first of all, have that particular crappy experience and second of all, to make people like us a teeny bit happier.
"Wherever illiberal leaders govern, the rule of law is replaced by legal codes and systems that institutionalize violence and corruption. This creates a culture of impunity that attracts the lawless into government service and keeps collaborators loyal to the head of state." -Ruth Ben-Ghiat
https://lucid.substack.com/p/should-donald-trump-be-prosecuted
Her post today is particularly important.
Yes sir, it is.
You'd believe him?
If I was doing it, I would tell him he was not getting a pardon, that staying out of jail would depend on his continued good behavior.
That'll work, at least for the next 2 1/2 years. If we want it to stick, we'll have to come up with a winner in 24.
Yes! We are unfortunately in that bad position of our side has to win every election. Theirs has to only win once.
Will this movie be in theaters or streaming?
I have trouble imagining him giving up publicity, you know? But he'd come back with, ok, I get to still be in public, but I'll give you Rudy, etc.
He'll give up anything. Look at his history. He always has. He can play golf publicly.
True. But he'll happily give up people first.
Oh yeah - and they go to jail.
That “deal” is the kind that sounds attached to a pardon from a sitting President. I wonder what will happen if he is convicted.
Glenn Kirschner, former DOJ attorney, said months ago, the DOJ won’t bring a case they can’t lock down. He admits, if there’s a jury there’s margin for error, juries can be unpredictable. I’m confident the DOJ will collect all the necessary pieces of evidence.
I for one want to see him put in prison, I want to see him rot in there, Reidsville here in GA already has a squalid fetid cell with his name welded on it, it will be fun to see how many of his lawyers want to try to get to Reidsville to visit him. Once the stinking flatulence is out of the inflation he will be shown to be a small man, the one he has been his whole life, and we will be done with him, the only thing I ever want to read about him again ,is his obituary, that includes where he is buried so I know where to go when I have to take a piss, of that I am very clear.
Yeah, you've said it all. A boy can dream.
If you've got a dream, it's good to be explicit. I think you covered all the bases, Dick.
20 years inside should ensure that he doesn't run again. It would be even better if, once indicted, he was held as a flight risk pending trial.
Yes!
I want to see him hold the Bible upside down again before he's admitted to the PEN.
In 20 years, he will be 96. By that time, his mouth may even be too old to pucker like the sphincter it is.
Whooo-hoo! Who said DC in August is as empty as Noah Hawley's head?
There's gonna be a hot time in the old town next month.
You were as clear and concise as HCR in yesterday's Letter from an American.
Two! Two! Two indictments in one! More taste, more fun.
Fraud and the major actor of an insurrection is sweet.
August is gonna rock. Bring yer popcorn!
Deal. Yup. We'll be pissed but he gets to live the rest of his useless life as "Convicted former President..."
You wrote: "The sentence is 20 years."
That's a long time for an obese old man.
Such a relief, isn’t it. TC, I started to feel a spark of hope in Garland about a month ago. His plodding along statements made me realize that he maybe combines “won’t be fearful of Trump’s wrathful accusations” with “won’t be moved by press and political pundits” with “won’t be afraid of affecting upcoming election.” Maybe. Fingers crossed. Want him to be my George Smiley in Tinker,Tailor ❤️🤍💙
Vote 51 may just be coming from Wisconsin if Ron Dipstick Johnson is as complicit as it now appears. Arrange a Senate meeting for Fack Slate of Electors?
A short while ago I posited that DOJ wouldn’t indict until after the midterms just because of the institutional need to lock down a case. I was thinking of the insurrection investigation. The fake elector scam is a totally different kettle of stinking fish. Much easier to prove and defenses are factual (“I didn’t write that”) instead of legal (“I am privileged to say anything I want at a rally”). So maybe this will move faster.
All it takes is one US Attorney or one AG or one DA to get the ball rolling and then they all will pile on. (Frankly I’m sort of surprised Georgia has jumped for the ball already.)
The DOJ wasn't sleeping when The Capitol was attacked and when Trump and his Hench Mob tried to overturn the election along with US government. That creepy rapist, con-artist, pathological liar, real-estate failure... had a mission and it failed like so many of his other ventures. What's Putin thinking and DJT's other dictator buddies?
More importantly what are the militias, the MAGAs, the Republican Party and those candidates like JD Vance in Ohio thinking? TC wrote that he would be shaking in his boots if he was Trump. Oh, yeah, HOW ABOUT SOME VIOLENCE INSTEAD?
Who are the MAGAs? 'The demographic composition of the MAGA movement is overwhelmingly white, male, Christian, retired, and over 65 years of age. They’re attracted to the following groups, ones that include gun rights, charities, pro police, anti-lockdown, pro-life, and “stop the steal.” They’re extremely politically active, all in support of the Republican Party. However, only roughly 60 percent are solid Republicans, the rest either “lean” Republican or Independent. The MAGA movement overwhelmingly believes Trump’s election fraud claims, would have supported him for a “third term”(had it been an option), and don’t believe that voting should be made easier.'(PSMM) See link below.
The MAGAs aren't young but, perhaps, they can't sit still with this news, and then there are the militias... Can a lid be kept on Trump's Millions of Maniacs?
https://sites.uw.edu/magastudy/maga-and-politics/
There is hope!!
To say I feel delighted just doesn't capture my joy! And there are so many emails! Colbert talked about them last night. The "wizard" will be unmasked. And sent away where he belongs.
YES!! Thank You TC! Sharing!!