I hope Biden will see his dealings with Netanyahu as an "it's either him or me" situation, because it's shaping up to be just that. Netanyahu needs this grisly, out-of-proportion war to continue. Biden (and all of us who care about people — on all sides) need it to stop. Netanyahu needs to go. How that's to happen is way beyond my pay grade, but I hope Biden can figure out a way to differentiate, policy-wise between our support for Israel as an ally and shoring up a corrupt and bloodthirsty leader.
Doesn’t seem to me to be the “both sides” Netanyahoo would like the world to believe. No one should conflate supporting Israel and eradicating Hamas with Netanyahoo’s documented Palestinian genocide. In turn though, as long as Israel allows Netanyahoo to stay in power, they are part of that genocide, and as long as we ignore how our weapons are used, so are we. I sincerely think Biden will stick to his word but I’ll reiterate that NONE of us are privy to the intelligence reports Biden is. It’s simply arrogant to pretend otherwise.
I think you've hit the key point on U.S. support for the "war on Hamas." Most Americans envision this as the IDF identifying and going after Hamas operatives with the intent of eliminating them as an effective fighting force. Most of us who understand the concept of war also understand that there will be some civilian casualties, especially because Hamas has no scruples about using human shields even if they are Palestinian civilians because Hamas' goal is power, not an independent state or anything necessarily beneficial to the majority of the Gazan population. Netanyahoo, on the other hand, and his wacky right wing coalition members, see all Palestinians as the enemy and are pursuing the war accordingly. There is no evidence that I've seen suggesting that a majority of Israelis or Americans support that idea and Biden would do well to make that point and drive it home to the Israeli government.
Exactly. Israel could have justified a war, but absolutely not the war it chose to fight. What don’t they get about the fact that intentionally killing thousands of noncombatants is a war crime. Real armies don’t do that. Starvation is a war crime. Honestly, trying to save Israel from itself is exhausting and I’m not sure it’s worth it
In Jewish history, every time Israel has gotten in Big Trouble - the Babylonian Captivity, the Roman Diaspora, it came from them putting themselves in a position where they lost the support of their friends.
Nor to any US leaders talks with Benny Gantz, an Israeli moderate who came to DC last week against the wishes of Netanyahu. It would be good to know what transpired.
I never forgave Bibi for showing up Obama with his smug appearance in Congress. The idea that Gantz was here possibly undercutting Bibi just seems like, um, yeah.
The only way out and for this 'war' to end is for the US to stop all aid to Israel. Which, of course, isn't going to happen. Netanyahu has badly overplayed his hand in this. He thought he was looking at 1967-style operation and a capitulation by Hamas. Didn't happen. So, now he's killing Palestinians and Israelis. Bibi wants that land. He'll never accept a two-state agreement, but this one-sided action has to stop. Biden, and others, have to stand up to Netty-yahoo and the percolating madness before it spiralis into something much more foreboding.
It may have begun to spiral already. The Times of Israel is just now reporting that there is an "alleged" attack within Lebanon by Israel. Our military has been concerned about this for months.
They're always screwing around in Lebanon. Any more of this, Syria, Jordan and others will start rattling sabers and then the mayhem will escalate into a wider conflict. Lets not forget, Gaza has oil. No one seems to understand that is part of this.
I can’t help but think Biden had hoped he would have a negotiating partner in Netanyahu to give Israel an off ramp through a two state solution. But as Biden learned belatedly with the Republicans, he’s the only good faith actor in the room. He has to do to Netanyahu what he’s doing to the Republicans today: put him in an untenable position to clarify how evil he actually is. The rub is getting the Israeli people to start to imagine a peaceful future. While the vast majority of Israelis are not kibutznics in the West Bank, or wannabe kibutznics moving to Gaza, they have been trained to be frightened by the thought of Palestinians. A two state solution requires the Israeli people to get on board with the idea.
I do hope Biden will make it clearer and clearer that the problem with Israel is Netanyahu and his cronies more than with Israel in general. I suspect many of the Muslims/Arabs conflicted by US support of Israel recognize that. I can see that an anti-Netanyahu government might have rained destruction on Gaza for the first few days. That's an understandable response to the attack by Hamas. Even our war in Afghanistan had SOME understandable reasons as long as we thought it would flush out bin Laden. But it soon became pointless for that, and by the time we hit Iraq we were going full-Bibi. And Bibi is like the Ever Ready Bunny with firepower--he just keeps going.
In the back of Biden’s mind also has to be the discussions reported between the Saudis and Russia to somehow squeeze us on oil so gas prices flare up (pun intended) before the election. I don’t know how this would since our own production is so high at the moment, but there you are. What a tangled web we humans weave.
it is said that when Netanyahu was in town, he'd sleep over at the Kushners. in Jared's bed, someone also said (presumably, Jared was in Washington...I said PRESUMABLY). the point being that all the scumbags in AIPAC and the even more right-wing pressure groups have a lot of people my age and even younger for whom it is impossible to criticize ANYTHING about Israel. the old ploy was to call such people self-hating Jews (which in my case is accurate, but has nothing whatever to do with any small Middle Eastern countries...that was half a joke on the best day). but seriously, doesn't Biden NEED those folks? lots of power and lots of money on their side.
I hope Biden will see his dealings with Netanyahu as an "it's either him or me" situation, because it's shaping up to be just that. Netanyahu needs this grisly, out-of-proportion war to continue. Biden (and all of us who care about people — on all sides) need it to stop. Netanyahu needs to go. How that's to happen is way beyond my pay grade, but I hope Biden can figure out a way to differentiate, policy-wise between our support for Israel as an ally and shoring up a corrupt and bloodthirsty leader.
Doesn’t seem to me to be the “both sides” Netanyahoo would like the world to believe. No one should conflate supporting Israel and eradicating Hamas with Netanyahoo’s documented Palestinian genocide. In turn though, as long as Israel allows Netanyahoo to stay in power, they are part of that genocide, and as long as we ignore how our weapons are used, so are we. I sincerely think Biden will stick to his word but I’ll reiterate that NONE of us are privy to the intelligence reports Biden is. It’s simply arrogant to pretend otherwise.
I think you've hit the key point on U.S. support for the "war on Hamas." Most Americans envision this as the IDF identifying and going after Hamas operatives with the intent of eliminating them as an effective fighting force. Most of us who understand the concept of war also understand that there will be some civilian casualties, especially because Hamas has no scruples about using human shields even if they are Palestinian civilians because Hamas' goal is power, not an independent state or anything necessarily beneficial to the majority of the Gazan population. Netanyahoo, on the other hand, and his wacky right wing coalition members, see all Palestinians as the enemy and are pursuing the war accordingly. There is no evidence that I've seen suggesting that a majority of Israelis or Americans support that idea and Biden would do well to make that point and drive it home to the Israeli government.
Exactly. Israel could have justified a war, but absolutely not the war it chose to fight. What don’t they get about the fact that intentionally killing thousands of noncombatants is a war crime. Real armies don’t do that. Starvation is a war crime. Honestly, trying to save Israel from itself is exhausting and I’m not sure it’s worth it
In Jewish history, every time Israel has gotten in Big Trouble - the Babylonian Captivity, the Roman Diaspora, it came from them putting themselves in a position where they lost the support of their friends.
Nor to his conversations with
Netanyahu.
Nor to any US leaders talks with Benny Gantz, an Israeli moderate who came to DC last week against the wishes of Netanyahu. It would be good to know what transpired.
I never forgave Bibi for showing up Obama with his smug appearance in Congress. The idea that Gantz was here possibly undercutting Bibi just seems like, um, yeah.
Bibi has never not been smug. He rose in politics due to his brother's heroism, nothing of his own.
Like I would LOVE to hear everything Elena, Sonia, and Ketanji are saying behind those closed doors!!!
The only way out and for this 'war' to end is for the US to stop all aid to Israel. Which, of course, isn't going to happen. Netanyahu has badly overplayed his hand in this. He thought he was looking at 1967-style operation and a capitulation by Hamas. Didn't happen. So, now he's killing Palestinians and Israelis. Bibi wants that land. He'll never accept a two-state agreement, but this one-sided action has to stop. Biden, and others, have to stand up to Netty-yahoo and the percolating madness before it spiralis into something much more foreboding.
It may have begun to spiral already. The Times of Israel is just now reporting that there is an "alleged" attack within Lebanon by Israel. Our military has been concerned about this for months.
They're always screwing around in Lebanon. Any more of this, Syria, Jordan and others will start rattling sabers and then the mayhem will escalate into a wider conflict. Lets not forget, Gaza has oil. No one seems to understand that is part of this.
Warnings to travelers to Lebanon and Syria:
https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories/lebanon-travel-advisory.html
Look at the broader aspects too, in the Middle East. Before the Hamas attack, there was a very real chance
of a unity agreement, between Israel and its other
Islamic neighbors on a coalition for peace, mainly
against insurgent Iran and their cohorts. How does that
look now?
None of them want Hamas to
rule, but Netanyahu continues
to be a part of the breakdown
in the negotiations for a cease fire of any kind. Of
opening up the land access points for aid to reach Gazans without interminable
delays and continuing to press for a clearing out of
Rafah. 1.2 million people are
trapped in that area. To say
nothing about both the
the intransigence of Netanyahu and Hamas over
the exchange of prisoners.
Look at what's happening in
Northern Gaza.
I personally think President Biden drew a line in the sand
with Bibi a few weeks ago.
31 thousand and counting dead. Heaven knows how many under all the rubble
from the bombing! 17 thousand+ orphans. Children
starving to death! Netanyahu
takes no responsibility for any
of this and he should, as a
leader of his country.
This is the line Biden has
stepped up to and will not
cross, in my humble opinion.
I can’t help but think Biden had hoped he would have a negotiating partner in Netanyahu to give Israel an off ramp through a two state solution. But as Biden learned belatedly with the Republicans, he’s the only good faith actor in the room. He has to do to Netanyahu what he’s doing to the Republicans today: put him in an untenable position to clarify how evil he actually is. The rub is getting the Israeli people to start to imagine a peaceful future. While the vast majority of Israelis are not kibutznics in the West Bank, or wannabe kibutznics moving to Gaza, they have been trained to be frightened by the thought of Palestinians. A two state solution requires the Israeli people to get on board with the idea.
Netanyahu has shown himself to be the equal of Erich von dem Bach Zelewski.
I do hope Biden will make it clearer and clearer that the problem with Israel is Netanyahu and his cronies more than with Israel in general. I suspect many of the Muslims/Arabs conflicted by US support of Israel recognize that. I can see that an anti-Netanyahu government might have rained destruction on Gaza for the first few days. That's an understandable response to the attack by Hamas. Even our war in Afghanistan had SOME understandable reasons as long as we thought it would flush out bin Laden. But it soon became pointless for that, and by the time we hit Iraq we were going full-Bibi. And Bibi is like the Ever Ready Bunny with firepower--he just keeps going.
In the back of Biden’s mind also has to be the discussions reported between the Saudis and Russia to somehow squeeze us on oil so gas prices flare up (pun intended) before the election. I don’t know how this would since our own production is so high at the moment, but there you are. What a tangled web we humans weave.
You have to know who you are bargaining with.
I believe Biden finally sees Nitwityahoo as the worthless scumbag he always has been.
it is said that when Netanyahu was in town, he'd sleep over at the Kushners. in Jared's bed, someone also said (presumably, Jared was in Washington...I said PRESUMABLY). the point being that all the scumbags in AIPAC and the even more right-wing pressure groups have a lot of people my age and even younger for whom it is impossible to criticize ANYTHING about Israel. the old ploy was to call such people self-hating Jews (which in my case is accurate, but has nothing whatever to do with any small Middle Eastern countries...that was half a joke on the best day). but seriously, doesn't Biden NEED those folks? lots of power and lots of money on their side.
ugly, complicated, infernal (more adjectives, anyone?) situation.