I am reposting Josh Marshall’s commentary at TPM (which is paywalled there) since it appears to me to be the best non-official analysis of yesterday’s bombing of the hospital in Gaza. Josh uses non-oficial third party investigators, and there are links to the information for those interested in confirming things for themselves.
Yesterday, MSNBC reporter, Raf Sanchez, who was reporting shortly after the blast, apparently shared Hamas talking points directly as received. He's usually a good reporter, but I was amazed at the information he was sharing regarding the size of the missile, its capability, the numbers killed, etc. and attributed the blast to Israel. I know news media wants info and wants it fast; they do like their scoops. But as noted by others, the fog of war is just that - a FOG - and reporters have a responsibility to check their sources before going on live camera. That's how misinformation gets spread so rapidly.
Israeli intelligence, per NBC, intercepted a radio transmission from two Hamas leaders who admitted it was a misfired misel from them. Plus, Israel has much more powerful weapons and "would leave a creator" in addition to the target being destroyed.
Also, no one has mentioned the non-invasion of Gaza, because as big a mouth as Bibi has, his military (and their readiness) isn't fully equipped to actually invade. Plus, as noted elsewhere, the deft handling of the delicate nature of this by Biden. In spite of Dumbass Donald and his screaming Mimi's in Congress and MAGA cult members, the president has cautioned Netanyahu against invasion and a much wider conflict, which could involve a whole bunch of others with bad intentions towards both Israel and the U.S.
With the Ford and Eisenhauer attack groups there or almost there, sitting off the Israeli coast, there is a possibility this war could deescalate soon. Iran, Russia and China would like nothing more than to see a tomahawk flying towards them. Likely won't happen, but the scenarios are still there.
I have been happy to see that the MSM which initially reported this as Israeli-caused have issued corrections and pulled back. I doubt that is happening on Twitter. Does anyone know how Fox is treating this. I'm not up to looking at their blather myself right now. By which I mean the talking heads. Fox itself on the actual new side is at least suggesting the evidence points to Hamas--correction--to an affiliate of Hamas
Hm... Thank you for pointing this article out. I do read TPM when I can, but there's been quite a bit of ground to cover lately and this article is exactly the kind of thing I like to see. I have been unhappy lately with many respected commentators acting as if "he said, she said" situations amount to "oh, well now all the information is in" when in fact even generally quite trusted sources can justify lying when the truth would hurt them or their people far too badly. Too much is at stake to simply take anyone's word for what happened. Excuse me now... I have a number of links to dig around in.
Thank you for posting this analysis & discussion about open source analytical techniques.
I am a Brllingcat learner and my trial experience has taught me to search for the "best evidence" which would be obtained from qualified Post Mortems (PM's) from the "Silent Witnesses" (testator silens) meaning dead bodies
Even one corpse would speak volumes including direct evidence from fatal wounds. Recall Bin Laden's death was confirmed.
What about other valid evidence such as NBC video footage from Richard Engels perch looking down into Gaza City 24/7 recording the occasional orange-red IDF Nightime Flares illuminating the GAZA CIty sky?
ENGEL has substantial war zone experience reporting the sounds of war ordinace & counter-measures.
Review the NYT map drawing of GAZA City, the impact zone the map moving toward the Israeli demilitarized zone. Richard Engel was reporting directly on the Gaza City area below him. I was expecting a capable report from Richard the morning after the tragic incident below from NBC's camera.
So where is Richard? Engel is up on the Northern Border showing a burning 🔥 building in the background & unrest in the foreground a familiar Richard report.
It would assist the investigation to see if NBC's cameras have any data or if they ring any Bells on any Cats.
Just now on NBC Evening News, an Israeli official commented that if it had been an Israeli bomb, there would have been a big hole. Hellavuh defense that.
The Member Newsletter by Josh Marshall at TPM came with a photo of where the missile hit. It showed a small crater and some burned out cars; if it was one or the bombs the IDF has been dropping there wouldn't have been anything left. Also, how did such a "small" explosion kill hundreds of people?
It's dismaying to see demonstrators all over the ME now binding Israel and the US at the hip as though they/we are the same entity. Biden may have been overly adamant in expressing US support for Israel, making negotiators' jobs all the more difficult, assuming they ever get to the point of negotiating. The focus needs to be on peace-making or we will be drawn into another war we can't win.
Netanyahu did not serve the purpose of peace when he spoke at the UN last month and held up a map of Israel that drew some gasps because it did not include Gaza, and that may have signaled some kind of Israeli intent that played into the Hamas attack.
We can expect more trouble of several kinds stateside. And just when violent crimes were down according to the FBI's latest reporting.
NOPE - I doubt that any terrorist organization as Hamas is is burdened by something called morals. But the "morals" of an administration that bombs hospitals, schools and civilians? Those dont seem to be exactly front and center at this time. Bombs and rockets (no matter which side) arent known for their "morals" either.
At this point - really, does it matter WHO was responsible for this one incident? Not really. HAMAS started this particular "firefight" in this particular moment. But bombing hospitals and schools? What exactly does that say? Reading what many Israelis themselves are saying? They want this to STOP! Before it escalates into the abyss - which is what everyone should want. Both sides are guilty-period.
This paragraph is from Democracy Now:
"So, if you can talk about the rejection of the U.N. Security Council draft resolution calling for a humanitarian ceasefire in Gaza? The resolution was introduced Monday. It was introduced by Russia, won the support of Gabon, Mozambique, the United Arab Emirates and China. Six countries abstained. France, Japan, the United Kingdom and the United States voted against the ceasefire resolution."
Yesterday, MSNBC reporter, Raf Sanchez, who was reporting shortly after the blast, apparently shared Hamas talking points directly as received. He's usually a good reporter, but I was amazed at the information he was sharing regarding the size of the missile, its capability, the numbers killed, etc. and attributed the blast to Israel. I know news media wants info and wants it fast; they do like their scoops. But as noted by others, the fog of war is just that - a FOG - and reporters have a responsibility to check their sources before going on live camera. That's how misinformation gets spread so rapidly.
Israeli intelligence, per NBC, intercepted a radio transmission from two Hamas leaders who admitted it was a misfired misel from them. Plus, Israel has much more powerful weapons and "would leave a creator" in addition to the target being destroyed.
Also, no one has mentioned the non-invasion of Gaza, because as big a mouth as Bibi has, his military (and their readiness) isn't fully equipped to actually invade. Plus, as noted elsewhere, the deft handling of the delicate nature of this by Biden. In spite of Dumbass Donald and his screaming Mimi's in Congress and MAGA cult members, the president has cautioned Netanyahu against invasion and a much wider conflict, which could involve a whole bunch of others with bad intentions towards both Israel and the U.S.
With the Ford and Eisenhauer attack groups there or almost there, sitting off the Israeli coast, there is a possibility this war could deescalate soon. Iran, Russia and China would like nothing more than to see a tomahawk flying towards them. Likely won't happen, but the scenarios are still there.
That's Eisenhower
Agree with caution on this.
I have been happy to see that the MSM which initially reported this as Israeli-caused have issued corrections and pulled back. I doubt that is happening on Twitter. Does anyone know how Fox is treating this. I'm not up to looking at their blather myself right now. By which I mean the talking heads. Fox itself on the actual new side is at least suggesting the evidence points to Hamas--correction--to an affiliate of Hamas
Hm... Thank you for pointing this article out. I do read TPM when I can, but there's been quite a bit of ground to cover lately and this article is exactly the kind of thing I like to see. I have been unhappy lately with many respected commentators acting as if "he said, she said" situations amount to "oh, well now all the information is in" when in fact even generally quite trusted sources can justify lying when the truth would hurt them or their people far too badly. Too much is at stake to simply take anyone's word for what happened. Excuse me now... I have a number of links to dig around in.
Thanks!
Thank you for posting this analysis & discussion about open source analytical techniques.
I am a Brllingcat learner and my trial experience has taught me to search for the "best evidence" which would be obtained from qualified Post Mortems (PM's) from the "Silent Witnesses" (testator silens) meaning dead bodies
Even one corpse would speak volumes including direct evidence from fatal wounds. Recall Bin Laden's death was confirmed.
What about other valid evidence such as NBC video footage from Richard Engels perch looking down into Gaza City 24/7 recording the occasional orange-red IDF Nightime Flares illuminating the GAZA CIty sky?
ENGEL has substantial war zone experience reporting the sounds of war ordinace & counter-measures.
Review the NYT map drawing of GAZA City, the impact zone the map moving toward the Israeli demilitarized zone. Richard Engel was reporting directly on the Gaza City area below him. I was expecting a capable report from Richard the morning after the tragic incident below from NBC's camera.
So where is Richard? Engel is up on the Northern Border showing a burning 🔥 building in the background & unrest in the foreground a familiar Richard report.
It would assist the investigation to see if NBC's cameras have any data or if they ring any Bells on any Cats.
Just now on NBC Evening News, an Israeli official commented that if it had been an Israeli bomb, there would have been a big hole. Hellavuh defense that.
As WS Gilbert wrote over 100 years ago, "Things are seldom what they seem."
Very, very helpful - thank you.
The Member Newsletter by Josh Marshall at TPM came with a photo of where the missile hit. It showed a small crater and some burned out cars; if it was one or the bombs the IDF has been dropping there wouldn't have been anything left. Also, how did such a "small" explosion kill hundreds of people?
It's dismaying to see demonstrators all over the ME now binding Israel and the US at the hip as though they/we are the same entity. Biden may have been overly adamant in expressing US support for Israel, making negotiators' jobs all the more difficult, assuming they ever get to the point of negotiating. The focus needs to be on peace-making or we will be drawn into another war we can't win.
Netanyahu did not serve the purpose of peace when he spoke at the UN last month and held up a map of Israel that drew some gasps because it did not include Gaza, and that may have signaled some kind of Israeli intent that played into the Hamas attack.
We can expect more trouble of several kinds stateside. And just when violent crimes were down according to the FBI's latest reporting.
Thank you, to say that the fog of war is just that, belies instant analysis. You can’t find a good guy there with a microscope. Proceed with caution…
Thanks for this TC.
NOPE - I doubt that any terrorist organization as Hamas is is burdened by something called morals. But the "morals" of an administration that bombs hospitals, schools and civilians? Those dont seem to be exactly front and center at this time. Bombs and rockets (no matter which side) arent known for their "morals" either.
Weight of (informed and credible) analysis. Good. Thanks for sharing.
At this point - really, does it matter WHO was responsible for this one incident? Not really. HAMAS started this particular "firefight" in this particular moment. But bombing hospitals and schools? What exactly does that say? Reading what many Israelis themselves are saying? They want this to STOP! Before it escalates into the abyss - which is what everyone should want. Both sides are guilty-period.
This paragraph is from Democracy Now:
"So, if you can talk about the rejection of the U.N. Security Council draft resolution calling for a humanitarian ceasefire in Gaza? The resolution was introduced Monday. It was introduced by Russia, won the support of Gabon, Mozambique, the United Arab Emirates and China. Six countries abstained. France, Japan, the United Kingdom and the United States voted against the ceasefire resolution."
https://www.democracynow.org/2023/10/18/un_special_rapporteur_palestine_albanese?utm_source=Democracy+Now%21&utm_campaign=c46eb197ba-Daily_Digest_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_fa2346a853-c46eb197ba-192377045
It matters.
Are you comparing Israeli morals with those of Hamas?