My mother grew up in Denver. They met at Harvard. My mother came from an amazing family. Her mother was probably the first female Coloradan to get a PhD. Unfortunately the MS took her down, and then out. Her brother--my mother's uncle--ran the Colorado democratic party for the first half of the last century--he gave the speech advocating…
My mother grew up in Denver. They met at Harvard. My mother came from an amazing family. Her mother was probably the first female Coloradan to get a PhD. Unfortunately the MS took her down, and then out. Her brother--my mother's uncle--ran the Colorado democratic party for the first half of the last century--he gave the speech advocating ending prohibition at the '32 convention. But this guy, both a second and a third cousin, was probably the most amazing of all, https://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/climbing/remembering-tom-hornbein-everest-pioneer
although there was another cousin, a woman--who became a major figure in Buffalo (If you can get into the obit pls copy and paste it in for me. I got into it once, and havne't been able to get into it again and I have no need to subscribe to the buffalo news
it's a pretty aggressive paywall, but I managed to have a copy sent to my Kindle. I'm not sure how to get this to YOU. but yeah, your relatives were quite a bunch. how did those Jews get to Colorado? probably not all that different from how my Russian great-grandfather ended up settling in Little Rock.
I'm not sure. That's a good quesstion. I think they came in the 1850s or 1860s. Actually, by then there were trains probably to Illinois from the east coast, but nothing x-country yet.
so it sounds like you're from German (as opposed to Pale of Settlement) stock. same folks, just different places.
when I was growing up, however, the general understanding we had (as kids) was that the German Jews were stuck up in all kinds of ways ( to some of them, Yiddish was an embarrassment, even if it was the Jewish lingua franca and based mostly on German). actually, the Germans are the ones who created the world of Kosher delis, to help give the Russian/Polish Jews a way to make a living. things like Pastrami sandwiches didn't exist outside of Germany and related Western European countries before the early twentieth century. but when I was a kid, every reasonably Jewish neighborhood had its own Jewish deli...AND an Appetizing store.
NOW, alas, it's very difficult to find a good Pastrami Sandwich in NYC. another clear sign that the place has been horribly diminished in every way.
Unlike Carnegie Deli in the Beverly Hills "golden triangle," which made Pastrami sandwiches so good that Billy Wilder told me he wouldn't buy them elsewhere. Last I heard they're still doing that.
no doubt in my mind that this is the case. several of those LA delis are absolutely legendary. at one of them --possibly the Carnegie--my old friend Harvey Lembeck had a standing weekend deli group that met every Saturday for decades. one of the members of that group was Peter Finch (Harvey: "Believe it or not, the guy's favorite thing in the world was Jewish food and sometimes Hank Fonda stopped by"). I'd gone to elementary school with Michael when the family lived around the corner from us in Queens. I loved to run lines with Harvey because it made me feel unbelievably glamorous and show-bizzie. during the summer of '77, in the wake of my disastrous trip there to be around the mixing of the second album. I ended up crashing at the Lembecks' and Harvey took me everywhere to get my mind off the crazy music business shit (coupled with a very precipitous fall off the wagon on my part) that was going on. I'll always be grateful, although Harvey himself didn't last more than a few years after that.
I'm not even sure if the old NYC Carnegie Deli is still open. Katz's will obviously always be there, but the place is always mobbed enough that you often have to wait for seats, which is another way of saying it's become kind of a tourist trap. the food is still as good as it was, although I preferred the pastrami at the Second Avenue Deli, which had become unpleasant in the wake of its owner's murder. I think it still exists, but nowhere near Second Avenue. I DID recently download a NY Magazine story which names the 15 best pastrami sandwiches in NYC, but I had problems with at least half their choices...one could say the same kind of thing about the magazine itself.
and it just occurred to me that Harvey had one of his best roles in "Stalag 17," which is, of course, a Billy Wilder movie.
I'll always remember Harvey for playing the "heavy" opposite Bob Cummings in one of those Beach Blanket Bimbo movies - he w as so obviously having fun caricaturing the role. But yeah, he was very good in Stalag-17. That was, BTW, based on real events - the playwrights were a pair of B-17 pilots who spent time as POWs (writers write best what they know).
I think our ancestry is mostly pale of settlement. The last name is only one of 16 ancestors going back to when most of us came. Although like Holzman, Hornbein may be German. My mother's father's lineage was definitely pale of settlement (Shevetevsky). My paternal grandmother's maiden name was Mandell (not sure how many l's.
I don't think either Boston or Seattle had enough Jews to provide ample pastrami, at least in the neighborhoods where we lived. Of course, we did have my second grade best friend, Ralph Siegel, maybe two stones throws from us. His grandfather was a founder of Nordstrom's, which began in Seattle, and which ws the location of one of my earliest remembered dreams (sliding down the bannister and getting butterflies in the stomach). Ralph's mother--daughter of NOrdstrom cofounder, was interior decorator to Seattle's elite, including John Ehrlichman, probably long before he became a Nixon aide. And I did go to a Jewish nursery school which was very close by, although I have absolutely no recollection of how I got there. And I met my nursery school teacher again when we came back the year I was in second grade. The following summer, she was associated (can't remember how) with the JCC day camp I went to. So maybe there was pastrami in that neighborhood. But there were plenty of people in that neighborhood who weren't Jewish--the Dibleys, the Kanyers, the Petersens, the Morehouses. I really have no idea what the proportion of Jews was. And when I say "neighborhood," I'm thinking within two blocks of us, but the nursery school was not in wht I'm referring to as neighborhood, athough I think it was just across the main street from that neighborhood. All these questions and no parents to ask. (If it hadn't been for the MS I think there's a good chance my mother would still be alive, even though she'd be 100. Between the cousin who made it to 104 ,her couch potato sister with the terrible diet making it to 90 (my mother was athletic and ate according to what was considered good nutrition at the time, and adjusted to new knowledge, which is how her three kids learned to do likewise).
My mother grew up in Denver. They met at Harvard. My mother came from an amazing family. Her mother was probably the first female Coloradan to get a PhD. Unfortunately the MS took her down, and then out. Her brother--my mother's uncle--ran the Colorado democratic party for the first half of the last century--he gave the speech advocating ending prohibition at the '32 convention. But this guy, both a second and a third cousin, was probably the most amazing of all, https://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/climbing/remembering-tom-hornbein-everest-pioneer
although there was another cousin, a woman--who became a major figure in Buffalo (If you can get into the obit pls copy and paste it in for me. I got into it once, and havne't been able to get into it again and I have no need to subscribe to the buffalo news
https://buffalonews.com/obituaries/ruth-kahn-stovroff-104-volunteer-and-leader-in-jewish-community/article_f64cc69b-3f85-542d-beeb-039f4314f870.html
it's a pretty aggressive paywall, but I managed to have a copy sent to my Kindle. I'm not sure how to get this to YOU. but yeah, your relatives were quite a bunch. how did those Jews get to Colorado? probably not all that different from how my Russian great-grandfather ended up settling in Little Rock.
I'm not sure. That's a good quesstion. I think they came in the 1850s or 1860s. Actually, by then there were trains probably to Illinois from the east coast, but nothing x-country yet.
so it sounds like you're from German (as opposed to Pale of Settlement) stock. same folks, just different places.
when I was growing up, however, the general understanding we had (as kids) was that the German Jews were stuck up in all kinds of ways ( to some of them, Yiddish was an embarrassment, even if it was the Jewish lingua franca and based mostly on German). actually, the Germans are the ones who created the world of Kosher delis, to help give the Russian/Polish Jews a way to make a living. things like Pastrami sandwiches didn't exist outside of Germany and related Western European countries before the early twentieth century. but when I was a kid, every reasonably Jewish neighborhood had its own Jewish deli...AND an Appetizing store.
NOW, alas, it's very difficult to find a good Pastrami Sandwich in NYC. another clear sign that the place has been horribly diminished in every way.
Unlike Carnegie Deli in the Beverly Hills "golden triangle," which made Pastrami sandwiches so good that Billy Wilder told me he wouldn't buy them elsewhere. Last I heard they're still doing that.
no doubt in my mind that this is the case. several of those LA delis are absolutely legendary. at one of them --possibly the Carnegie--my old friend Harvey Lembeck had a standing weekend deli group that met every Saturday for decades. one of the members of that group was Peter Finch (Harvey: "Believe it or not, the guy's favorite thing in the world was Jewish food and sometimes Hank Fonda stopped by"). I'd gone to elementary school with Michael when the family lived around the corner from us in Queens. I loved to run lines with Harvey because it made me feel unbelievably glamorous and show-bizzie. during the summer of '77, in the wake of my disastrous trip there to be around the mixing of the second album. I ended up crashing at the Lembecks' and Harvey took me everywhere to get my mind off the crazy music business shit (coupled with a very precipitous fall off the wagon on my part) that was going on. I'll always be grateful, although Harvey himself didn't last more than a few years after that.
I'm not even sure if the old NYC Carnegie Deli is still open. Katz's will obviously always be there, but the place is always mobbed enough that you often have to wait for seats, which is another way of saying it's become kind of a tourist trap. the food is still as good as it was, although I preferred the pastrami at the Second Avenue Deli, which had become unpleasant in the wake of its owner's murder. I think it still exists, but nowhere near Second Avenue. I DID recently download a NY Magazine story which names the 15 best pastrami sandwiches in NYC, but I had problems with at least half their choices...one could say the same kind of thing about the magazine itself.
and it just occurred to me that Harvey had one of his best roles in "Stalag 17," which is, of course, a Billy Wilder movie.
I'll always remember Harvey for playing the "heavy" opposite Bob Cummings in one of those Beach Blanket Bimbo movies - he w as so obviously having fun caricaturing the role. But yeah, he was very good in Stalag-17. That was, BTW, based on real events - the playwrights were a pair of B-17 pilots who spent time as POWs (writers write best what they know).
I think our ancestry is mostly pale of settlement. The last name is only one of 16 ancestors going back to when most of us came. Although like Holzman, Hornbein may be German. My mother's father's lineage was definitely pale of settlement (Shevetevsky). My paternal grandmother's maiden name was Mandell (not sure how many l's.
I don't think either Boston or Seattle had enough Jews to provide ample pastrami, at least in the neighborhoods where we lived. Of course, we did have my second grade best friend, Ralph Siegel, maybe two stones throws from us. His grandfather was a founder of Nordstrom's, which began in Seattle, and which ws the location of one of my earliest remembered dreams (sliding down the bannister and getting butterflies in the stomach). Ralph's mother--daughter of NOrdstrom cofounder, was interior decorator to Seattle's elite, including John Ehrlichman, probably long before he became a Nixon aide. And I did go to a Jewish nursery school which was very close by, although I have absolutely no recollection of how I got there. And I met my nursery school teacher again when we came back the year I was in second grade. The following summer, she was associated (can't remember how) with the JCC day camp I went to. So maybe there was pastrami in that neighborhood. But there were plenty of people in that neighborhood who weren't Jewish--the Dibleys, the Kanyers, the Petersens, the Morehouses. I really have no idea what the proportion of Jews was. And when I say "neighborhood," I'm thinking within two blocks of us, but the nursery school was not in wht I'm referring to as neighborhood, athough I think it was just across the main street from that neighborhood. All these questions and no parents to ask. (If it hadn't been for the MS I think there's a good chance my mother would still be alive, even though she'd be 100. Between the cousin who made it to 104 ,her couch potato sister with the terrible diet making it to 90 (my mother was athletic and ate according to what was considered good nutrition at the time, and adjusted to new knowledge, which is how her three kids learned to do likewise).
That would be great if you can get me that obit. She was my mother's first cousin, about ten years older.