I have had it with war and terror. You cannot trust autocrats to do the right thing for anyone but themselves. That the MAGA crew thinks this is all okay is even more reason to vote them all out in November. This is mind-numbing idiocy and it has to end.
Biden is not “weak and impotent.“ He is, however, still stuck in the ‘50s-‘70s default mindset of supporting Israel all the time. I think this mindset is more than just an echo of the idea that Israel was a democratic and anti-communist bulwark against Russian meddling in the Middle East. I think there was a genuine sense of guilt for how the western world had treated Jews for centuries which culminated in the Holocaust. I think also, there was an expectation that Israel would be an example of small “L” liberalism in the Middle East, and that it would embrace a more moral character after most of its population had suffered immensely in Europe—certainly they will understand and try to ameliorate suffering. You all may think that’s a foolish view, or a view that’s been disproven time and again, but I do think that has been much of what has emotionally motivated support for Israel.
Now it’s becoming clear that Israel is just another country with the same pathologies as the rest of us. Biden is slowly overcoming 50+ years of conditioning to come to the same conclusion. For many people, and apparently Richard Haas, Israel is no longer special.
Yes, that attitude about Israel and the Holocaus had much to do with the West supporting the extablishment of the Israeli state after the war, and supporting it up to the 70s, after which cold war politics came to the fore.
I've been having a maddening conversation with someone who thinks that the Palestinians brought this all on themselves because they didn't "resist" Hamas. I pointed out that the same reasoning applies to those Jews who didn't resist the Nazis--both repugnant assertions. There seems to be a mindset that "because we suffered in the Holocaust we can do whatever we like, even massacre civilians, to "defend" ourselves. Scary mindset, that.
Thanks for this, TC. Just maybe we will see some action to go with the words which have not persuaded Netanyahu to care about anything other than his own future.
Let this not be another case of “thoughts and prayers.” If Netanyahu wanted to appear to be using starvation as a weapon of war, he would do what he has done and is still doing. “Frivolous” inspections holding up aid trucks, dead WCK volunteers and 196 other aid workers, charitable organizations canceling their activities because it’s too dangerous. Not to mention bombed hospitals.
Yes. The pressure is coming. I've said it before, the Likud far right extremists were allied with Mussolini in the 30s. They are fascist pigs too. Jared Kushner ie right up there with them. Catch what he's been saying?
There is no persuading autocratic fascists. Yank the weapons NOW.
No offense to the fine commentator you shared, but "the Washington consensus" is what got us into all this trouble in the first place. It's roughly equivalent to reading The Best and the Brightest and then saying, "Let's ask the same people what we should do in Vietnam."
You've got a big piece of it, but it has another dimension: "the Washington consensus," or foreign-policy establishment or whatever you want to call it, has long seen Israelis as white and Arabs as brown, and also as being in the Soviet camp. One might ask how this alignment came about, but historical thinking is not their long suit -- the Arabs, especially the Muslims among them, are not do-or-die Communists.
I'm no expert either, but I'm guessing that U.S. identification with Britain, the #1 imperial power in the Middle East after WW1 -- France was #2 -- had something to do with it. The Palestinians, and the Arabs more generally, had zero reason to love the British.
I'm sure I missed a LOT. But I did read recently that Bibi isn't criticizing Russia over Ukraine because of the feeling that Russia keeps Iran under control. I don't buy that that's true. I wouldn't fault Bibi for engaging in that kind of realpolitik with the idea of defending his country if I didn't already know that he is a completely amoral liar who will sell out anyone and anything to stay in power.
I listened to the Haas interview. It doesn’t matter to me that he was part of what got us into this in the first place. He sees that Netanyahu is intransigent and determined to prevent a Palestinian state. By starvation or bombs, whatever it takes.
I was not aware of the annexation of yet more territory for the settler movement. We have to stop enabling what we have enabled already, at the very, very least.
I wasn't saying how much I agree or disagree with Haase, just the reference to Washington consensus. For my part, I guess we could all agree that even a stopped clock is right twice a day, with the possible exceptions of anyone who is now loyal to the republican party and Henry Kissinger.
I've been saying that I don't find it difficult to be pro-Israel, anti-Hamas, pro-two state solution, pro-releasing hostages, and pro-putting Bibi on the next space capsule and sending him into outer space.
Don't forget, Michael, Bibi has been stoking fear in general,and Hamas in particular, to stay in power and out of jail for some time now. That's why he did all he could to ensure Hamas stayed in control of Gaza.
White House spokesman John Kirby also said that "the United States expected to see Israel not just “announcing” changes, but “executing” and “implementing” them."
I should hope so. I recently read a defense of Israel's "warnings" to the population that the IDF sends TEXTS to tell Palestinians to scurry somewhere like a fox trying to evade the hounds. Quite apart from the fact that they then bomb the place where the fox has scurried, how exactly is a population with no power, not to mention homes and food and water, supposed to read texts?
Netanyahu has done what the Nazis started. Made the Israelis persona non grata all over the world. You can’t play the victim after you have squashed the enemy and the innocent into the ground. Another strategy or another government.
Thank you, TC, it is definitely past time to close the door on Netanyahu. He is destroying Israel's standing in the world. Even the Israeli people oppose him. Send him to trial, let his sorry ass rot in prison. Let Mossad destroy Hamas, unless Netanyahu has already destroyed Mossad. No more weapons for Israel, food, medicine and help in rebuilding and a unified New Palestine with a Constitution that stipulates NO Terrorists from any country.
I wonder what Netanyahu's counter threat to Biden was. I suspect there was one and Biden knew it would be coming. Benny Gantz knows what's been going on or he wouldn't have taken the political risks he has.
I agree about Benny Gantz, but I can’t imagine what kind of threat to Biden could be made by Netanyahu. Maybe turn the Evangelicals against him more than they already are? Maybe stop sharing intelligence with us? Or rapidly build new settlements so as to make a two-state peace impossible?
I have had it with war and terror. You cannot trust autocrats to do the right thing for anyone but themselves. That the MAGA crew thinks this is all okay is even more reason to vote them all out in November. This is mind-numbing idiocy and it has to end.
Biden is not “weak and impotent.“ He is, however, still stuck in the ‘50s-‘70s default mindset of supporting Israel all the time. I think this mindset is more than just an echo of the idea that Israel was a democratic and anti-communist bulwark against Russian meddling in the Middle East. I think there was a genuine sense of guilt for how the western world had treated Jews for centuries which culminated in the Holocaust. I think also, there was an expectation that Israel would be an example of small “L” liberalism in the Middle East, and that it would embrace a more moral character after most of its population had suffered immensely in Europe—certainly they will understand and try to ameliorate suffering. You all may think that’s a foolish view, or a view that’s been disproven time and again, but I do think that has been much of what has emotionally motivated support for Israel.
Now it’s becoming clear that Israel is just another country with the same pathologies as the rest of us. Biden is slowly overcoming 50+ years of conditioning to come to the same conclusion. For many people, and apparently Richard Haas, Israel is no longer special.
Yes, that attitude about Israel and the Holocaus had much to do with the West supporting the extablishment of the Israeli state after the war, and supporting it up to the 70s, after which cold war politics came to the fore.
I've been having a maddening conversation with someone who thinks that the Palestinians brought this all on themselves because they didn't "resist" Hamas. I pointed out that the same reasoning applies to those Jews who didn't resist the Nazis--both repugnant assertions. There seems to be a mindset that "because we suffered in the Holocaust we can do whatever we like, even massacre civilians, to "defend" ourselves. Scary mindset, that.
Thanks for this, TC. Just maybe we will see some action to go with the words which have not persuaded Netanyahu to care about anything other than his own future.
Let this not be another case of “thoughts and prayers.” If Netanyahu wanted to appear to be using starvation as a weapon of war, he would do what he has done and is still doing. “Frivolous” inspections holding up aid trucks, dead WCK volunteers and 196 other aid workers, charitable organizations canceling their activities because it’s too dangerous. Not to mention bombed hospitals.
Terrorists and autocrats do not recognize either laws or boundaries. Neither can be trusted to do the right thing. None of them are heroes.
It's a hot mess!
I can understand, up to a
point, about supporting an
allie when it's attacked, but
this has gone far beyond that
with Netanyahu.
The attack on the WCK was
deliberate. The starvation of
Gaza is deliberate. The total
destruction of the Gaza strip
is deliberate as well as the
death and eventual
displacement of all
Palestinians in Gaza and the
West Bank.
Netanyahu wants it all. I think
Biden, Blinken and others are
finding this out and there's
not going to be much, if any
more diplomacy.
Yes. The pressure is coming. I've said it before, the Likud far right extremists were allied with Mussolini in the 30s. They are fascist pigs too. Jared Kushner ie right up there with them. Catch what he's been saying?
There is no persuading autocratic fascists. Yank the weapons NOW.
No offense to the fine commentator you shared, but "the Washington consensus" is what got us into all this trouble in the first place. It's roughly equivalent to reading The Best and the Brightest and then saying, "Let's ask the same people what we should do in Vietnam."
You've got a big piece of it, but it has another dimension: "the Washington consensus," or foreign-policy establishment or whatever you want to call it, has long seen Israelis as white and Arabs as brown, and also as being in the Soviet camp. One might ask how this alignment came about, but historical thinking is not their long suit -- the Arabs, especially the Muslims among them, are not do-or-die Communists.
I'm no expert either, but I'm guessing that U.S. identification with Britain, the #1 imperial power in the Middle East after WW1 -- France was #2 -- had something to do with it. The Palestinians, and the Arabs more generally, had zero reason to love the British.
I'm sure I missed a LOT. But I did read recently that Bibi isn't criticizing Russia over Ukraine because of the feeling that Russia keeps Iran under control. I don't buy that that's true. I wouldn't fault Bibi for engaging in that kind of realpolitik with the idea of defending his country if I didn't already know that he is a completely amoral liar who will sell out anyone and anything to stay in power.
Nah, I don’t buy that either, Bibi and Putie are cut from the same cloth.
I listened to the Haas interview. It doesn’t matter to me that he was part of what got us into this in the first place. He sees that Netanyahu is intransigent and determined to prevent a Palestinian state. By starvation or bombs, whatever it takes.
I was not aware of the annexation of yet more territory for the settler movement. We have to stop enabling what we have enabled already, at the very, very least.
I wasn't saying how much I agree or disagree with Haase, just the reference to Washington consensus. For my part, I guess we could all agree that even a stopped clock is right twice a day, with the possible exceptions of anyone who is now loyal to the republican party and Henry Kissinger.
I've been saying that I don't find it difficult to be pro-Israel, anti-Hamas, pro-two state solution, pro-releasing hostages, and pro-putting Bibi on the next space capsule and sending him into outer space.
Don't forget, Michael, Bibi has been stoking fear in general,and Hamas in particular, to stay in power and out of jail for some time now. That's why he did all he could to ensure Hamas stayed in control of Gaza.
Sound right to me, Michael.
When someone agrees with me, I tend to worry about them! :)
Sorry
I so hope Joe is listening to Jill.
White House spokesman John Kirby also said that "the United States expected to see Israel not just “announcing” changes, but “executing” and “implementing” them."
I should hope so. I recently read a defense of Israel's "warnings" to the population that the IDF sends TEXTS to tell Palestinians to scurry somewhere like a fox trying to evade the hounds. Quite apart from the fact that they then bomb the place where the fox has scurried, how exactly is a population with no power, not to mention homes and food and water, supposed to read texts?
Netanyahu has done what the Nazis started. Made the Israelis persona non grata all over the world. You can’t play the victim after you have squashed the enemy and the innocent into the ground. Another strategy or another government.
Thank you, TC, it is definitely past time to close the door on Netanyahu. He is destroying Israel's standing in the world. Even the Israeli people oppose him. Send him to trial, let his sorry ass rot in prison. Let Mossad destroy Hamas, unless Netanyahu has already destroyed Mossad. No more weapons for Israel, food, medicine and help in rebuilding and a unified New Palestine with a Constitution that stipulates NO Terrorists from any country.
I wonder what Netanyahu's counter threat to Biden was. I suspect there was one and Biden knew it would be coming. Benny Gantz knows what's been going on or he wouldn't have taken the political risks he has.
I agree about Benny Gantz, but I can’t imagine what kind of threat to Biden could be made by Netanyahu. Maybe turn the Evangelicals against him more than they already are? Maybe stop sharing intelligence with us? Or rapidly build new settlements so as to make a two-state peace impossible?
Maybe all of the above.